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81 entries found in trilema for 'tinyscheme' :

feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2019/11/a-little-bit-of-tinyscheme-a-lot-of-cozonac/ << The Whet -- A Little Bit of TinyScheme, a Lot of Cozonac
asciilifeform: ( tinyscheme also pretty crufty but at least ~small~ )
asciilifeform: it is ! it's the turd the gimp folx replaced ye olde tinyscheme with
phf: i suspect you might discover it to be same kind of situation as tinyscheme
asciilifeform fucking hates tinyscheme's approach of 'gnarly procedural coad for parsing'
mircea_popescu: mod6 oh i thought you were using the tinyscheme
a111: Logged on 2017-10-08 14:06 phf: spyked: r5rs and tinyscheme are not the right places to start on the other, non-ada end, i'd recommend looking at lisp in small pieces. you can tease out the theory out of tinyscheme, but it's definitely easier not to get bogged on accidentals if you start from theory
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 16:29 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828076 << phf in retrospect tinyscheme plugin was an ill-conceived thing. such item really calls for a troo adatronic scheme thing.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 16:08 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828005 << the closest we got to a replacement i believe was asciilifeform's shiva, i.e. a tinyscheme embedded into trb runtime. it was suggested as a useful exercise for novices to attempt to expose existing, useful rpc function using it, but there were no takers. at some point the idea of using shiva in prod also went away, because tinyscheme is not necessarily production ready (primarily because of C-ism issues). as
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828076 << phf in retrospect tinyscheme plugin was an ill-conceived thing. such item really calls for a troo adatronic scheme thing.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828005 << the closest we got to a replacement i believe was asciilifeform's shiva, i.e. a tinyscheme embedded into trb runtime. it was suggested as a useful exercise for novices to attempt to expose existing, useful rpc function using it, but there were no takers. at some point the idea of using shiva in prod also went away, because tinyscheme is not necessarily production ready (primarily because of C-ism issues). as
asciilifeform: ( tldr : something like 'tinyscheme', but in heapless ada, and with deliberately no gc )
caaddr: it would be nice to bootstrap an entire operating system from machine code to forth to some strange mix of forth and ada, ada, then tinyscheme, and finally a sane common lisp subset
asciilifeform: no 'status' of code. tinyscheme-like representation.
asciilifeform: the important aspect is to avoid the mistake asciilifeform made early on in vtronic era, with 'tinyscheme' proggy
spyked: at least once it goes out of memory it will scream, unlike tinyscheme buffer overflows.
asciilifeform: tinyscheme-like item as discussed here ?
spyked: anyway, I have much of Scheme in head. I'm looking at tinyscheme mostly to figure out what "subset of r5rs" they've implemented. though I'm expecting tinyscheme subset isn't necessarily the same as tmsr-needed subset.
phf: spyked: r5rs and tinyscheme are not the right places to start on the other, non-ada end, i'd recommend looking at lisp in small pieces. you can tease out the theory out of tinyscheme, but it's definitely easier not to get bogged on accidentals if you start from theory
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-05#1720982 <-- considering this as a "learn Ada" project. will share code once I have minimum item worth of showing (processing r5rs and tinyscheme meanwhile)
asciilifeform: it also occurs to asciilifeform that he is doomed to at some point write something like a sane 'tinyscheme' in ada. so that we have a scripting lang and can finally pour the cement into grave of python.
asciilifeform: (not a bad exercise, btw -- make a 'tinyscheme' in ada)
asciilifeform: lel, ipnoje uses 'tinyscheme' internally.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 02:31 asciilifeform: shiva(tinyscheme) is not a wife, it is a cow. it is quite possible to have a house without a cow. if you do have a cow, it lives in separate structure, and nobody will need to be reminded that it is not a wife.
asciilifeform: (my original aim with tinyscheme was strictly to weld an interactive debugger into own trbtron.)
trinque: if you bring i.e. tinyscheme into a v-tree, is it not your cross to bear?
mircea_popescu: mod6 i expect the correct solution going forward is : a) for someone (maybe trbf ?) to make a Wildman McFucksticks key which b) will be used to sign a compliant rebase of tinyscheme / anything else anyone finds in the woods and wants to sign.
asciilifeform: i ain't equating, e.g., tinyscheme, to works from my own pen.
asciilifeform: shiva(tinyscheme) is not a wife, it is a cow. it is quite possible to have a house without a cow. if you do have a cow, it lives in separate structure, and nobody will need to be reminded that it is not a wife.
asciilifeform: nor tinyscheme, etc.
mircea_popescu: to put it in more direct terms : remove fog of war around authorship yes, but this can ONLY be done through denying the franchise to anyone outside of wot. only wot people can be authors of things, so in this sense anything, tinyscheme included, until and unless its meatspace authors fess up, is literally "found in forest" and will have to bear an actual man's name
asciilifeform: i specifically asked to memorialize the fact that i did not write tinyscheme.
asciilifeform: in the case of tinyscheme, i dealt with (or at least thought i was dealing with) the case where two separate bloodlines merge.
asciilifeform: (the reason for which, was to demonstrate that shiva was tinyscheme largely as-found-in-the-forest)
asciilifeform: i can't really think of any excuse why the 'machine anchor' of common lisp HAS to be any bigger than, e.g., tinyscheme's
phf: if you take any of the canonical bignum-in-lisp implementations and port them to tinyscheme, multiplication of one 5 digit number by another 5 digit number takes ~seconds~. optimization is left as an exercise. i suspect some of the routines can be implemented as opcodes.. you could also take that numeric thing asciilifeform extracted out of gnupg and bolt it to tinyscheme as a PoC
mod6: would it be a worthy project for someone to start to write some essential libs for tinyscheme?
asciilifeform: and conceivably one could hand-compile tinyscheme.
phf: so far only person who wrote anything for tinyscheme is myself, and tinyscheme is more of a PoC than anything else. bignums for example were ~unreasonably~ expensive
mircea_popescu: ahahah. so "in point of fact tinyscheme doesn't"
mircea_popescu: i don't recall, what was the objection to tinyscheme as the root ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in point of fact, tinyscheme does.
asciilifeform: e.g., perl, python, tinyscheme, many forths
a111: Logged on 2017-01-19 17:40 asciilifeform: or is it 'bytecode' a la tinyscheme?
asciilifeform: or is it 'bytecode' a la tinyscheme?
adlai: (at worst - tinyscheme matchstick-and-glue-bridger)
asciilifeform: it was re 'let's keep tinyscheme-like thing in l0 and no other x86 progs anywhere'
asciilifeform: a la tinyscheme
asciilifeform: trinque: also it isn't a given that tinyscheme is necessarily the best starting point for implementing a civilized scheme
trinque already pulled up the tinyscheme source, will read as he drinks wine
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is sorta why i came upon the notion of resurrecting 'tinyscheme'
asciilifeform: trinque: read the thread. and, for that matter, the tinyscheme thread. mircea_popescu has a very particular idea of what 'abolish libraries' entails.
asciilifeform: btw there was a trojan bearing 'tinyscheme'
jurov: i am willing to bet the glue will be bigger than the tinyscheme itself
asciilifeform: cleaned up, released (as pedigree chain from original tinyscheme)
mircea_popescu: i am not importing "tinyscheme" or "rfc" or anything else.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-14 05:18 phf: but i haven't seen those problems yet in the bitcoin codebase, the problem that i did see is a certain deliberate apartness of tinyscheme related code, that subtly violate my assumptions in a nagging way that i described above.
trinque: that "apartness" you smell on tinyscheme is throughout the thing, not just there
phf: but i haven't seen those problems yet in the bitcoin codebase, the problem that i did see is a certain deliberate apartness of tinyscheme related code, that subtly violate my assumptions in a nagging way that i described above.
asciilifeform: in the tinyscheme sense.
mircea_popescu: tinyscheme :D
asciilifeform: i am NOT and will NOT be willing to sign off on, e.g., tinyscheme, or even trb, with same level of assurance as for code that i and i alone had written.
phf: tinyscheme then becomes a space of unknowing
asciilifeform: it points to tinyscheme.
asciilifeform: it doesn't point to a 'place where i swear i put a tinyscheme and not rm -rf'
trinque: tinyscheme at point in time, no shit
phf: well, tinyscheme-0f2b8cc
mircea_popescu: you know saying "tinyscheme 4564387658734" is not for this reason better than "tinyscheme"
asciilifeform: but you NEVER 'say tinyscheme'
trinque: it will until you hit a boundary and say "openssl" or "tinyscheme"
phf: asciilifeform: i understand that but you're missing what i'm saying. you yourself said that you're not particularly trusting tinyscheme. it has overflow bugs, it has all kinds of issues, and keeping its apartness insulates ~you~ from a certain amount of responsibility. it's no longer serving a purpose as part of a bigger trb patch, now it's this third party "pedigree" thing, that we can sort of rely on, but nobody's responsible for etc.
asciilifeform: phf: but we DON'T '#include tinyscheme', we include PARTICULAR HASH OF PARTICULAR SNAPSHOT
phf: tinyscheme is very much openssl
phf: yeah, i found that point of tinyscheme somewhat confusing. i understand asciilifeform's intent of "this is how i found tarball", but it seems to contradict wot aspects of v
asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu recall why i did the tinyscheme genesis the way i did ?
asciilifeform: tinyscheme did not chain off any previously standing thing.
asciilifeform: phf: ENTIRELY different applications. tinyscheme was suggested SPECIFICALLY for embedding in large cpp program with ~tiny~ loc budget
phf: asciilifeform: recall that i spent probably most time here on tinyscheme going as far as writing swank integration and unreleased bignums, i'm saying that you go through phases of "this is how we solve bitcoin". i grok the value of ada, and i grok the value of scheme, but neither are alternative-less. in fact with the amount of skill available, simply hacking on btc consistently we would've been further along
phf: asciilifeform: well, same way as no particular alternatives were seen to tinyscheme few months ago
phf: why perverse? it's pretty standard for scheme to be compiled to C, it's a classical cps technique, sort of a couple of next chapters away from how tinyscheme is a classical interpreter
mod6: tinyscheme is an interpreter no?

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