Young Hands
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Ossasepia



diana_coman: hanbot, the .cmf format is binary for cal3d
diana_coman: if you want to figure that one out, you'll need to look at cal3d's manual thing
diana_coman: this is not a terrible start for cal3d : http://download.gna.org/cal3d/documentation/guide/
lobbesbot: Title: The Cal3D User's Guide (at download.gna.org)
diana_coman: basically the models are made in blender but then they need to be exported and that is currently a rather iffy part
diana_coman: existing exporters "work" only partially, only in certain cases, only when there's a full moon and the stars are aligned
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, hanbot re format in any case the reference is .blend really, not the exported stuff
mircea_popescu: diana_coman so basically we just want .blend delivered huh
diana_coman: well, that is the main thing anyway; basically the "source code" not the binary what is this
diana_coman: we do have some minimal specs for .blend though, at a very minimum those from cs in any case
diana_coman: I guess I should fish them out and put on the wiki or something
mircea_popescu: yeah that's a good idea, just throw them in there we'll make sense of it later.
shinohai: lol just passed mircea_popescu still snail searching
diana_coman: was he chasing after the snails? :d
diana_coman: as a starting point re .blend for crystal space & some (not all..) of the existing exporters: http://www.crystalspace3d.org/docs/online/manual/Blender.html
lobbesbot: Title: Crystal Space 2.1.0: 5.8 Making Levels and Models in Blender (at www.crystalspace3d.org)
mircea_popescu: shinohai oya. got 160
shinohai: aha nice
diana_coman: also hanbot or who else is interested http://www.crystalspace3d.org/main/Tutorials#Tutorials_for_Artists
lobbesbot: Title: Tutorials - Crystal Space 3D (at www.crystalspace3d.org)
diana_coman: http://www.crystalspace3d.org/main/ArtistBestPractices_Tutorial <- these are all worth a read as a minimum
lobbesbot: Title: ArtistBestPractices Tutorial - Crystal Space 3D (at www.crystalspace3d.org)
shinohai: I managed to get 229 q116 grass this morning before cft ran out :D
mircea_popescu: oh that guy never showed up huh
shinohai: nope hasn't yet, I gave him the ords and bundles last night
mircea_popescu: aww, manage it = give him 1 at a time lol
shinohai: >.<
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTwUhKgoSew << official snail hunting poem
lobbesbot: Title: După melci - Ion Barbu - YouTube (at www.youtube.com)
hanbot: diana_coman thanks for the reading materials etc. fwiw, i'm using blender v2.67 (released may 2013). current is 2.78a, released last month. any reason i oughta noodle with upgrades?
diana_coman: I would have to look into 2.78a to see what they claim to do there and whether any of it might help with the cal3d export part; basically from a strictly blender point of view I worked with a whole set of versions from 2.4 to 2.7 and I would say 2.67 is fine in there; what you might want to test first however before choosing one version is how the different exporters behave if you want to try use/adapt an existing exporter
diana_coman: basically different exporters work to different degrees with different versions - making it all a huge headache; cutting this short I would rather just stick to 2.71 and develop an exporter for that (it has a baking API which I'm not sure is in 2.67 as well)
diana_coman: (we'll need texture baking at least as an option)
diana_coman: ffs they list "Python APIs changes" as FEATURE, arrgh
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: are they on 3.x yet ?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman don't we want to do runtime textures ?
mircea_popescu: imo texture baking is a stupid idea.
mircea_popescu: o nm, i misunderstand. texture baking = turning procedural texture into raster texture. i thought it meant "attaching specified texture to model permanently"
diana_coman: aha; not attaching permanently, no
diana_coman: they are "focusing" on 2.8
mircea_popescu: one of the things i think most (all ?) other games get wrong is the fucking art semantics. very VERY flimsy attempts of "scale-and-retexture", usually resulting in red/green/black/gold/etc dragons.
mircea_popescu: fuck that stupid shit. it's an entire language, scale and retexture.
diana_coman: hanbot, from what I can see at a quick look, 2.78 seems to claim mainly bits and bobs for making the actual drawing/rigging easier so that's perhaps for you to have a look at if it's any help, mainly the new bendy bones stuff perhaps for rigging
diana_coman: changing the *colour* omg what an accomplishment of the accomplished accomplishitters
mircea_popescu: you know ?
mircea_popescu: whereas the correct approach is to 1. make master mesh 2. make set of animations for it. SET! 3. make set of textures for it ; and then 4. make SET of (A,T) mappings, allowing you to have numerous ~meaningfully different yet similar~ mobs of the same "species". ie exactly how nature works.
mircea_popescu: your upper bound becomes a.count*t.count not fucking min(a,t) as thye do it.
diana_coman: thing is: poor cal3d actually aims to allow one to do exactly as much or as little puzzle-building/changes as you want really
diana_coman: you can event have bits of mesh and combine those too really so sets of part-meshes to put together
mircea_popescu: i recall unspecifically it was very well fitted for my specs. years ago this.
mircea_popescu: ie (late ?) 2013 when we did the original survey work
diana_coman: well yes, cal3d hasn't changed much or at least not in this core idea (and I hope it doesn't "change" either, lol)
mircea_popescu: :p
hanbot: i'll see about getting 2.71 going for the sake of being on the same page then. i'm not too trusting of "easier!!1" stuff for its own sake
diana_coman: cool stuff; from my point of view we can freeze at 2.71 esp when we get to make a proper exporter for it
mircea_popescu: diana_coman version 3.x i meant re python
mircea_popescu: hanbot basically whatever you pick has good chances to end up baked in permanently, so pick something good.
diana_coman: ^^^^^
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I think latest blender shouts for python 3 ONLY, yeah
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: i'm not terribly sure python 3 has any sort of future. it seems altogether unable to muster specific support in tmsr, and the open sores movement is running out of steam.
shinohai: I still prefer 2.7 tbh
mircea_popescu: actually their statement is so lulzy worth quoting.
mircea_popescu: "Short version: Python 2.x is legacy, Python 3.x is the present and future of the language
mircea_popescu: Python 3.0 was released in 2008. The final 2.x version 2.7 release came out in mid-2010, with a statement of extended support for this end-of-life release. The 2.x branch will see no new major releases after that. 3.x is under active development and has already seen over five years of stable releases, including version 3.3 in 2012, 3.4 in 2014, and 3.5 in 2015. This means that all recent standard library improvements, for exam
mircea_popescu: ple, are only available by default in Python 3.x.
mircea_popescu: Guido van Rossum (the original creator of the Python language) decided to clean up Python 2.x properly, with less regard for backwards compatibility than is the case for new releases in the 2.x range. The most drastic improvement is the better Unicode support (with all text strings being Unicode by default) as well as saner bytes/Unicode separation.
mircea_popescu: Besides, several aspects of the core language (such as print and exec being statements, integers using floor division) have been adjusted to be easier for newcomers to learn "
mircea_popescu: so basically, "it is the present (delusionally) and future (hopefully) of the language because it has more unicode crap and it's easier for noobies."
mircea_popescu: glhf, if your focus is new people that means you're an altcoin and get lost.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile 2 branch is FINALLY stable.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what they must be drinking to imagine "more releases" is a selling point, but whatever it is, they're guzzling it down.
diana_coman: " several aspects of the core language (such as print and exec being statements, integers using floor division) have been adjusted to be easier for newcomers to learn " <- eurgh, so now core aspects are decided based on what is "easy" for newcomers, way to go
diana_coman: guess that might be a cutting point re blender versions then
diana_coman: basically whatever blender version is the last to work on python 2.x
diana_coman: and we'll make it work with that - it's anyway more reasonable than to import whatever new python mess
mircea_popescu: pretty much.
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine better news than "we finally took the creative gnats away, branch is finally stable". hallelujah.
hanbot: so diana_coman sadly the repairing saga seems to continue. in the past ~20 hrs i've done five repair clicks, all of which with "/repair". first two decayed repairer and repaired the altar. i checked qualities between these to see how it was going. then i did three more, without checking until the end of the third click. repairer decayed, but altar is exact same quality as after my 2/5 click, ie three clicks without repairing. i saw system say i've got
hanbot: ten points in mcguyver, repairing finished, etc. i've tried closing/opening inv, and relogging.
shinohai is now sorry he wasn't around here in 2015 to get one of those "Magic Bags" he is reading about.
diana_coman: hanbot, anything at all different done after those 2 initial repairs ? did you train after them?
shinohai: btw how does one "repair" things ... is there a section on this in wiki I overlooked perhaps?
diana_coman: the thing is: I can see the repair amount for all 5 attempts, but apparently the last ones did not make it to the right place, hmm
diana_coman: shinohai, it's a relatively recent thing - check out hanbot's post on it http://thewhet.net/2016/the-best-things-in-eulora-are-grimy/
diana_coman: and maybe add a page for it on the wiki, not a bad idea at all
diana_coman: hanbot, do you know what quality was your altar to start with? (so before those 5 repairs)
shinohai: Oh wow nice article diana_coman ... missed that for some reason, will have to add hanbot 's blog to my feed
DontCryRebuy: so i thought my character was a swarthy latino, but now running on another pc it seems to be a female... now named Cristoval hehe
diana_coman: welcome DontCryRebuy
DontCryRebuy: hi
mircea_popescu: a wb
diana_coman: did you find your way around DontCryRebuy ?
DontCryRebuy: there was a task waiting for me, i got a bunch of items from shinohai
DontCryRebuy: not yet
DontCryRebuy: is the camera always fixed vertically btw?
diana_coman: no, you can change it
diana_coman: have a look at the controls - in help iirc (the question mark icon at top of screen)
shinohai: oh hiya DontCryRebuy
diana_coman: I think "M" goes through the different camera modes
diana_coman: and Page Up/Down to move it vertically iirc
DontCryRebuy: hi shinohai, you can let me know what to do whenever you have time
shinohai: Sure lemme log back in and ill find ya
danielpbarron: shinohai, it's not too late to get a magic bag. make me an offer :p
shinohai: DontCryRebuy: click on the backback thingy in your menu then right click one of the keys
shinohai: haha danielpbarron ... i haz no idea what such necromancy costs
DontCryRebuy: ok
DontCryRebuy: key to small worthless putrid leather claimr
shinohai: it should show you coordinates to where a claim is, type /pilot <the coordinates> then enter
shinohai: and it will point you in the directionn
shinohai: DontCryRebuy: do one of the ordinary grass claims first
DontCryRebuy: it says autopilot done
diana_coman: autopilot only POINTS you in the right direction DontCryRebuy
shinohai: ok now start walking .....
diana_coman: you still need to move, lol
DontCryRebuy: ah ok
shinohai: remember you can check you position with /pos
DontCryRebuy: im pretty close
DontCryRebuy: think im there, i use the key?
diana_coman: unlock the claim DontCryRebuy
DontCryRebuy: damn i think i dropped the key is that possible
DontCryRebuy: tried to drag it on the claim thing
diana_coman: yes, it is possible
diana_coman: pick it up, lol
diana_coman: http://www.dianacoman.com/2015/08/30/euloras-first-grade-how-to-get-a-skill-build-a-claim-make-your-own-grass-etc/ <- look there for how to unlock+build the claim DontCryRebuy
DontCryRebuy: seems i have to get skills first then
DontCryRebuy: back i go
diana_coman: oh, no
diana_coman: no DontCryRebuy , you don't need skills
DontCryRebuy: oh
diana_coman: that part is obsolete meanwhile
diana_coman: it's a post from ..hm, 2015, look at that
diana_coman: just follow the part describing how to unlock and build the claim
diana_coman: there, updated post
DontCryRebuy: :)
DontCryRebuy: ok i have thousands of pieces of grass, these i give back to shinohai?
DontCryRebuy: or leave them at the claim?
diana_coman: take them with you back to shinohai, yes
diana_coman: and leave the claim unlocked as it's useless now
diana_coman: can you carry all that grass?
mircea_popescu: DontCryRebuy i'm in town, you can bring 'em to me here.
DontCryRebuy: ok
shinohai: Should I take him my table or let him suffer noob penance?
mircea_popescu: lol give the guy a table
mircea_popescu: DontCryRebuy dig all three first, then shinohai will explain how to botwalk over here
DontCryRebuy: well, i got a message about carrying too much load or something
mircea_popescu: aha
shinohai: DontCryRebuy: where are you at?
DontCryRebuy: -168.21 36.65 -143.54
DontCryRebuy: cant move also
shinohai: you are overweight, see top right corner of you inventory
shinohai: anyone have 4 cft and a craft table bp they can sell me? Imma make one
mircea_popescu: shinohai aha. trade me.
mircea_popescu: lol what are you doing, skating
shinohai: trying to get the craft table over to you
DontCryRebuy: i left the rest of the grass
mircea_popescu: where did you leave it ?
shinohai: it just leaves it behind
shinohai: mircea_popescu: I have the grass he couldnt get it in the table
DontCryRebuy: in front of you
DontCryRebuy: is that ok
mircea_popescu: yep.
mircea_popescu: soo... i'm confused. you got how much grass out of the three claims and where is it.
shinohai: anywho .... there it is
mircea_popescu: 1405 ?
shinohai: I have 8k of it he dropped mircea_popescu
DontCryRebuy: no i have 2 keys left
DontCryRebuy: i did 1 claim
mircea_popescu: ah go do all of 'em
DontCryRebuy: 3 keys left even
shinohai: I can't get close too many other tables
mircea_popescu: so wait he got like 9k from 1 claim ?
shinohai: yup
mircea_popescu: DontCryRebuy step back a bit you're guarding it
mircea_popescu: ok so 9405 this one ; go do the other two
mircea_popescu: just do them together, put the grass in table then botwalk back here
DontCryRebuy: so can i just grab a table here or do i have to make one
mircea_popescu: shinohai will make you one i think as soon as he accepts my trade
shinohai: sure
hanbot: http://logs.minigame.bz/latest.log.html#t20:06:54 << iirc was 25310, if that's at all useful. anyway, thanks for looking into it diana_coman
lobbesbot: Title: #Eulora log for Monday, 2016-11-28 (at logs.minigame.bz)
mircea_popescu: shinohai it's pretty relaxing yea
mircea_popescu: how goes DontCryRebuy ?
shinohai: got any cft bp's? may as well turn my grass into some
mircea_popescu: nope
mircea_popescu: also not terribly good move for you to make cft as it'll aggravate the shortage
diana_coman: aha, thanks hanbot, it helps track what happened there
DontCryRebuy: was afk for a bit mircea_popescu, traveling now
mircea_popescu: cool.
shinohai relegates grass to storage until later date
mircea_popescu: hanbot so you found a bona fide bug. will be fixed wed. plox don't do more repairs till then ; thanks for teh reporting, i'll add 100k to your tool.
hanbot: cool, glad something positive can come out of the hassle.
hanbot: i suppose i'll try some mowing 'til then :)
DontCryRebuy: its weird but i dont see this claim while im at the coords
mircea_popescu: hm.
DontCryRebuy: if there is a key, there should be a claim?
mircea_popescu: in principle. except if it's the same key you used before the claim may have disappeared as it was dug up
DontCryRebuy: ill check another one
mircea_popescu: did it work ?
DontCryRebuy: yeah im watching a meter fill up
mircea_popescu: nice.
DontCryRebuy: ive got the grass on the table at the town, one claim left but i have to go soon
mircea_popescu: why not do both symultaneous ?
mircea_popescu: anyway gotta take a step back so i can pick it up
mircea_popescu: moar
mircea_popescu: this is pretty good harvest DontCryRebuy
mircea_popescu: anyway, you doing the third now or tomorro ?
DontCryRebuy: tomorrow
mircea_popescu: alrighty. once that's done ima pay you for your trouble.
DontCryRebuy: cool
mircea_popescu: stuff here so far lessee
mircea_popescu: !~calc (6000+8508+9405) * 60 * .09 *.1
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: (6000+8508+9405) * 60 * .09 *.1 = 12913.02
mircea_popescu: almost 13k + whatever you get tomorrow prolly another 6k or so
DontCryRebuy: what can you use them for
mircea_popescu: 1 ecu = 1 satoshi
DontCryRebuy: i mean the grass
mircea_popescu: otherwise you can buy mining gear or whatever, craft materials/recipes
mircea_popescu: ah they're used to make threads
mircea_popescu: saw http://www.dianacoman.com/Eulora/ ?
lobbesbot: Title: Euloran Cookbook Version 1.3 (at www.dianacoman.com)
DontCryRebuy: not yet but ill take a look

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