Young Hands
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Ossasepia



mircea_popescu: hey diana_coman you about ?
mircea_popescu: so it seems to me the situation can be rather summarized like this : for a while i was in costa rica, and played eulora daily. for that while we focused on short term, clear payoff, necessarily smaller changes, which reliably drove small but visible improvement to the game.
mircea_popescu: then i took the harem for a year in europe, and since i knew i won't be playing daily i opted to not bother with an eulora system at all. this known in advance, we naturally focused on longer term, more fundamental approaches to an' dissections of the item.
mircea_popescu: these, aside from increased familiarity with the object, also reliably produced... increases in domain complexity. the main difference between eulora of 2017 and eulora of 2020 (again, aside from increased familiarity) is that the former worked fine on ~any system, a point verified time and again in actual practice ; whereas the latter apparently wants its own os, and as soon as that'll be done its own hardware, no doubt --
mircea_popescu: but, importantly, this is a purely theoretical concern, not like anyone plays it now at all do they ?
mircea_popescu: in the end, we painfully and i suppose expensively re-traced a point that was well (and very cheaply) established by 2016 : "The dispositive concern wasn't that the codebases selected are good ; rather it was that they are merely very, very, veryveryVERY dirty ; whereas the supposed cleanner substitutes aren't actually any cle
mircea_popescu: anner, and are fundamentally built in such a manner to prevent effective ownership and therefore any sort of useful cleaning."
mircea_popescu: as an aside : it seems to me that the previously referenced "poisonous offering" (cache) is precisely this -- the proposal to replace the mainstream pantsuit conceptual threadmill, where nothing is replaced with nothing on a tight schedule for no reason,
mircea_popescu: with the alt-pantsuit conceptual threadmill, the "counter"-cultural, by-and-for-goffy-kids yet JUST AS PANTSUIT (in the only important sense) threadmill, where nothing is replaced with ever "larger" nothing on a dilated schedule.
mircea_popescu: yet nothing is nothing, that's the important part, the difference between "special os" and "special os + hardware ecosystem" is entirely not anything. it's exactly the difference between 11yo boy's "criminal empire" and same (now 12yo) boy's "intergalactic empire" : nil.
mircea_popescu: they're both ~the same~ manifestation of his dysfunctional misadaptation, whereby instead of going to say hi to his classmate beth he just plays wheatus on the headphones.
mircea_popescu: much like before he ever saw a cunt, his wet dreams included tits and "feelings", and before he saw tits his wet dreams relied on merely "feelings", just so before seeing galactic-wars-whatever his "empire" was "criminal" and after it was "galactic". it's exactly the same thing : being twelve years old.
mircea_popescu: this is what it is, and it's so utterly reminescent of curtis yarvin & co attempted parasitosis of proto-republican environments that it can't be passed in silence.
mircea_popescu: no, i don't think the something awful tards are actually effectual in any sense (though yes of course they're "organizing" to "win" and etcetera blabla).
ossabot: (trilema) 2019-01-17 a111: Logged on 2015-08-21 23:21 mircea_popescu: "Welcome, kiddo, to how the real world works. You go ahead and place your crazy protest bids way off in the bottom of the sociological order book and scream that someday, SOMEDAY, the market will come down to meet you, and you will be vindicated.
mircea_popescu: but i do think that a pantsuit's a pantsuit, and what they'll do is try and convince you to wear the damned thing. one way or another. somehow. you don't want it like that, how about like this ? what if it had sugar on top ? what if it were packaged colorfully ?
mircea_popescu: what if the packaging said "not a pantsuit at all" in bright letters ? what if the radio grew knobs ? they won't be attached to anything, because how could they be, of course. but... will you sit in the car with the radio then ?
mircea_popescu: there's no conspiracy among all subhuman plants and animals to break pavement per se, either -- yet somehow it always seems we're the only ones laying it down, every other ant, narcissus, grass or weed breaking it back up.
mircea_popescu: in the end (and quite regardless of all that) the competition between a very dirty giraffe and a perfectly spherical chicken will always be won by the giraffe ; the prissy boyish gasp-and-startle at exposed giraffe guts is neither important nor productive, in any case not something to be followed or a seed that may bear fruit.
mircea_popescu: it really does not at all matter how the three meter long recurrent laryngeal nerve strikes anyone.
mircea_popescu: to be perfectly clear, i don't at all mind the retracing. it's one thing for a (meanwhile deceased) ex spymaster to say "that path looks like it leads nowhere", orally, just like that. "why not ?" "just a hunch". it's another thing to actually take a peek. peeking into the abyss is ultimately how everything was made, just as long as peeking doesn't consume the rest of one's life, of course.
mircea_popescu: in practical terms :
mircea_popescu: A. there's no point in my taking the time of day to create infrastructure so that "artists of the future", presumably (for entirely no reason) somehow magically less fucked in the head than the utterly worthless "artists" of the present day have a comparatively easier time. comparatively TO WHAT ? they're not doing it now ; ima start making their life easy ~once th
ossabot: (trilema) 2019-12-30 mircea_popescu: do you even recall how many "artists" i commissioned to date whose idea of "commission" and "artist" was... take some money and RUN!!!!!
mircea_popescu: ey get a life~ in the first place, and not fucking before, what the fuck is this nonsense.
mircea_popescu: it's the path to insanity, we've seen this grub of maggots play its genes out in the carcass of what used to be "the traditional family" -- start by making it "easier" for sons to be sons, then go about a field of maggots hiring them to play out the son, for pay,
mircea_popescu: then ever-lowering the threshold to son-performance while ever-increasing the budget for salaries ?!
mircea_popescu: fuck that dumb shit with a pointed stick, how about you a) kill nine in ten maggots that crawl out of any woman's cunt and then b) beat the shit out of her until she either dies or produces ten more. it seems to me a much better -- ethically better, thus morally obligatory -- approach.
mircea_popescu: B. given A, there's entirely no point in changing the current protocol. it works good enough as it is. sure, in ~theory~ RSA has a place in this world. but until it has a place in eulora, lots of other things have to change. until they do, things stay as they are -- and if "the community" wishes to know why it goes to town on horse and buggy rather than internal combustion engine, the answer's right here : [http://trilema.c
mircea_popescu: om/2011/pentru-ca-nu-aveti-bani/][too fucking poor]. Be less poor, have better things.
mircea_popescu: C. that given, I suppose we simply move down the 2018 list. infinity world doesn't need any of the bullshit above, so while i'm packing up here and returning to cr you look into how to make the server support an infinity of sectors ~that are exact copies of the current one~ except for objects in them. we've talked this through before, ye olde elite hash method of memory packing.
mircea_popescu: D. once i'm back we work together to make infinity objects also, and that's very well that. maybe C above provides re-entrancy into the A-B cycle with, for instance, a modest "here's how to transfer the heightmaps for random sectors", but honestly, I don't even fucking WANT different sectors for now. without artist support it's a liability not an asset to have.
mircea_popescu: lemme know what you think.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2020-01-10#1001248 - my outlook after the a/b choice at New Year's was that we are moving on from the initial idea of creating and supporting the full infrastructure to a minimal create a way in for the new kids that are bright enough to look for an alternative to the treadmill.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-10 08:14:47 mircea_popescu: A. there's no point in my taking the time of day to create infrastructure so that "artists of the future", presumably (for entirely no reason) somehow magically less fucked in the head than the utterly worthless "artists" of the present day have a comparatively easier time. comparatively TO WHAT ? they're not doing it now ; ima start making their life easy ~once th
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2020-01-10#1001251 - with this I quite agree and it was underpinning my no import of rot because it is rot
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-10 08:14:54 mircea_popescu: it's the path to insanity, we've seen this grub of maggots play its genes out in the carcass of what used to be "the traditional family" -- start by making it "easier" for sons to be sons, then go about a field of maggots hiring them to play out the son, for pay,
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: re backtracking, to my mind the 1st thing then would be the sane db work really, I would say; and the ugliest part is that backtracking to 2018 code means *also* being stuck with the quite insane PS communication protocol on both sides (+ as a consequence CS on the server side, can't ditch it).
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2020-01-10#1001229 - the part re needing its own OS though seems to me at least in part due simply to the time elapsed ie even the former/current client will start having trouble as ~everything moves from underneath it; it's not just that we increase domain complexity, it's also that we don't import other's pushed complexity.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-10 08:13:29 mircea_popescu: these, aside from increased familiarity with the object, also reliably produced... increases in domain complexity. the main difference between eulora of 2017 and eulora of 2020 (again, aside from increased familiarity) is that the former worked fine on ~any system, a point verified time and again in actual practice ; whereas the latter apparently wants its own os, and as soon as that'll be done its own hardware, no doubt --
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2020-01-10#1001264 << there's some of that, for sure.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-10 10:22:43 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2020-01-10#1001229 - the part re needing its own OS though seems to me at least in part due simply to the time elapsed ie even the former/current client will start having trouble as ~everything moves from underneath it; it's not just that we increase domain complexity, it's also that we don't import other's pushed complexity.
diana_coman: I think we basically need both artists and client writers tbh.
mircea_popescu: some humans wouldn't hurt anything in any case.
mircea_popescu: well stocked on insects as it is.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, yes, db is in there, for sure.
diana_coman: myeah; this last week while I reviewed all sorts, it dawned on me that I'd much rather contact for #o all those "I'll make my own graphics engine" kids on github than the "web stack dev on forums" crowd; I'm still mulling this.
diana_coman: apparently github is not all dead ie there are quite a large number with commits from this jan/ dec 2019.
diana_coman: fwiw the OpenGEX exporter actually seems to work (with the version of blender it claimed it did, some 2.78 if memory serves - ie one that runs at least on my machine).
diana_coman: (because latest blender will not run as it wants newer glibc ftw)
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: re infinite worlds but with the same exact sector - I don't quite get what you mean because if it is *exactly same map*, then from server's perspective it's just a matter of storing some sector id in a sane schema ie to know easily what is connected to what; I'm not sure I fully get what you mean there though.
mircea_popescu: i;m not against it ; though honestly they'll prolly be even more uselessly stubborn than the mindboggling average.
mircea_popescu: but... knowing people suck is no reason to not talk to new people.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, yes, that's exactly what i mean -- expand the currently sector=1 to sector=parameter and you're done.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: re people, I don't have particularly high expectation of the github crowd but perhaps some younger ones around there and at least they are doing something more than the webstack crowd as far as I can see; I'll still let it mull for a while, atm I anyway have some write-up(s) to do.
diana_coman: re sector, I'll have a look then, mainly for the devil in the details, as it usually is.
diana_coman: just to be on the crystal clear side: do you mean to literally get back to currently running version of client+server code?
mircea_popescu: i do.
mircea_popescu: not only that : i mean to literally get back to sanity. no more of these "improvements" that take forever and deliver nothing.
mircea_popescu: if an improvement can't be measured to deliver significant results in two weeks, it is not an improvement, nor is it needed. proponents are to be taken out and shot.
mircea_popescu: "cleaner code" that can't be actually run ~isn't cleaner~ ; and so on.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I can see the point; otoh there is the risk that one gets stuck that way too (when the codebase is so unyielding that adding new & useful stuff ends up taking itself longer than those 2 weeks and any cleanup to avoid that idem).
diana_coman: (also: make it one week and here we are recreating...Agile dev? )
mircea_popescu: yeah well, fate of man on earth -- get stuck one way, then the other...
mircea_popescu: just as long as it's not always the same way it's not really stuck.
mircea_popescu: but anyways : there's no avoiding the point that the effort was mostly research. we arrived at satisfying dead ends, there's now excellently documented, well understood ~reason~ why can't proceed on path x, y, z etc.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman,
mircea_popescu: sorry for the scattered answers, ima keep an eye on this screen nao.
diana_coman: all right; I'll take a few days to put down sanely (locally) current code on all fronts to
diana_coman: just in case later on we end up still needing some of it
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: we almost certainly will later make use of most of it.
diana_coman: then I'll pick up current versions and have a quick look & get back up to speed with it because changing code versions mentally can be a bit confusing.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
diana_coman: somewhere in there I really do need to write-up the graphics investigation too so that's not lost either
mircea_popescu: yup.
diana_coman: so I'd say I'm certainly set up with plenty for the coming week at least.
diana_coman: re certainly make use of most code, I don't really know
diana_coman: re client, it's unclear to me/it depends on who makes it really
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: what's the plan with the ps protocol, basically we are stuck with it and we'll have to fit everything in it?
mircea_popescu: yup.
diana_coman: sucks.
mircea_popescu: we spent a year trying to get unstuck, we failed, we may try again later, but until such a time everything either fits or gets the fuck lost.
mircea_popescu: well what can i tell you, everything sucks to this standard.
diana_coman: myeah, it quite does at that; it is what it is though, I get it.
mircea_popescu: anyways, what do you mean above re code ?
diana_coman: hm? where/what exactly?
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2020-01-10#1001303
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-10 16:26:50 diana_coman: re certainly make use of most code, I don't really know
diana_coman: specifically: reusing code written while trying to update the client version - it depends on who does the client in the end; if someone else makes a client, why would they care of that code, for instance.
diana_coman: on the server side, it depends how much the versions diverge essentially
diana_coman: sure, the experience & things like the job market will probably still be useful.
mircea_popescu: well, i mean how much client code did you end up writing anyways ?
diana_coman: less than I ended up cutting out, there is that.
mircea_popescu: so then, make an article of it and there you go, more shit minigame donated to the stripperweb community.
diana_coman: all the loaders mainly (don't have atm the number of lines as such and it doesn't quite matter, they were anyway more prototypes really)
mircea_popescu: right.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: you are right though, I don't see why not publish the stripped up client too anyway, not like there's something secret there.
diana_coman: my list of write-ups keeps growing like there's no tomorrow, pfft.
mircea_popescu: lol. imo prioritize emptying it.
diana_coman: well, "why not" would be "time it takes" really.
mircea_popescu: it won't take that long, and it'll self-amortize itself in short order by the lighter head you'll go through life with.
diana_coman: it will certainly self-amortize itself, that much I'm sure of; atm head hurts trying to structure all the gulp of graphics-stuff so that will have to get out too, lolz.
mircea_popescu: a task that takes 10 minutes to do normally takes 12 minutes to do with 3 articles you should have been written on your back. if you take 20 mins / article, a coupla workdays have amortized the time spent
diana_coman: hey, I'm not arguing against writing it! I'm simply stating that it will possibly push a few days further the re-start on code, that's all.
mircea_popescu: there;s this important factor nobody seems to realize, about brain load. if you're trying to work while loaded with articles you've not written, you take longer. much like if you try to drive a truck you didn't unload, you'll take longer.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, you got time, im not getting to cr before march.
diana_coman: ah! I don't know why it seemed to me that you were getting back to cr next week or so, lolz.
diana_coman: the payoff writing the articles is double really: one the unload, two the speedup when getting back to it; I lost track how many times I found my own articles very useful indeed! (and how many times I cursed I failed to write *other* articles, for good measure).
diana_coman: anyway, I'll prioritize writing it out indeed.
mircea_popescu: alrighty then!

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