Young Hands
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whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I completed my writing + Spanish study, but did closer to 5hr of work for the irc project than 6hr 45min. I was at my desk and didn't do any obvert avoidance behavior, but I had to take care of some things such as dealing with coordinating the delivery of my keyboard on the phone. I installed logbot again on another VM, proofreading my instructional article while doing so. The article is just about ready to
whaack: publish, although I could use some css improvements to better display bash commands on my blog.
feedbot: << Young Hands Club -- The Wayside Articles
jfw: diana_coman: in what I sadly suppose isn't a big surprise, several of my planned tasks this week are falling through, perhaps most notably today's - well, Wednesday's - publications
jfw: reflecting a bit, since we last spoke I chose to prioritize responding in #t due to the upcoming potential offline spell, and let myself get drawn into the reading; then travel prep of course, wherein I also found some housekeeping debts to catch up on. The time-consuming articles this week contributed to a pile-up today too
diana_coman: - re-genesis with the self-test is certainly better than nothing; other than that, you could I suppose just run my ada-keccak as ref since that's the practice anyway, isn't it?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 17:00:59 jfw: Do you have such test data for the original keccak? Otherwise, would you prefer I re-genesis now with fixed self-gen test, or postpone and try to figure this out?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: comment liberated, will answer it soon too.
diana_coman: - I'd like it in here as I can follow then more timely; some threads though might still belong in #t (eg if MP's input is needed); at any rate, I do follow & read all chans currently (if a bit slower on others than #o and #t at times).
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 22:54:10 trinque: diana_coman: since jfw and dorion_road appear to be in your house, where would you like the OS thread carried?
diana_coman: whaack: eod sounds good, looking forward to the article and then gradually the data & finally exploring this as it's been sitting around and waiting to get done for some time.
diana_coman: - myeah; trouble is your prioritising tends to end up along the lines of "which ball did I drop already, will pick it up now rather than later?"; way better to prioritise so as not to drop any to start with, you know?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 02:24:44 jfw: reflecting a bit, since we last spoke I chose to prioritize responding in #t due to the upcoming potential offline spell, and let myself get drawn into the reading; then travel prep of course, wherein I also found some housekeeping debts to catch up on. The time-consuming articles this week contributed to a pile-up today too
diana_coman: dorion_road: does your wayside article fully cover what you said it should?
diana_coman: trinque: after reading the latest OS related thread in #t, it does seem to me that there's still a lot that should be discussed in #t though; tbh thinking on this, I'm not sure there's a single place for it *all* ie I can easily see different threads (all related in some way or another to "tmsr os") belonging to each of the chans really (#trilema, #o, #trinque).
ossabot: (trilema) 2019-12-19 mp_en_viaje: << this may even be so. but trinque , have mercy : in obtaining any desired result, the manager has indeed to await patiently for ~all possible~ results be delivered ? there is NO possibility of choice available, you mean, in the sense of none ~at all~ ?
jfw: "way better to prioritise so as not to drop any to start with, you know?" - indeed.
jfw: keksum re-genesis out, and I'm off!
diana_coman: enjoy your holidays jfw !
dorion_road: << I'm seeing I didn't explicitly write about how I prioritize, which is what I said I'd write about. I wrote about priorities changing and why, but not about how I choose to do what when.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 04:28:56 diana_coman: dorion_road: does your wayside article fully cover what you said it should?
diana_coman: dorion_road: exactly; why or how does it end up morphing like that without notice?
dorion_road: diana_coman I didn't properly review the task I wrote before and while I worked on it.
dorion_road: It got morphed in my meat memory for reasons I don't know at present and I didn't rely on my notes to check the work.
dorion_road: diana_coman also, you probably noticed that it was submitted at the deadline I set for myself. When I hit publish, I knew it wasn't my best work, but I published what I had.
diana_coman: dorion_road: myeah; at the very least review/re-read before you start on it since it does seem like your idea of what you were aiming for tends to change without you even noticing it.
diana_coman: dorion_road: re deadline there's a few questions for both articles of yesterday really; how did it go anyway? (iirc on Sat we touched briefly on this and the timings; there was no update so "everything is fine")
dorion_road: diana_coman I had made good progress on the +ev article on tuesday. i had gathered more references/reasons than I ended up using, so narrowing down to what I wrote took about and hour more thought than I had planned.
dorion_road: I was on a tight schedule last night and decided to published rather than postpone the deadline.
diana_coman: dorion_road: fwiw I had quite some trouble following the +ev article; read it twice and I think I got more or less what you wanted with it but I'm not so sure how much sense it makes for someone who doesn't already know what you are talking about there.
diana_coman: dorion_road: that much is clear re tight schedule; the q though is why do you keep pushing everything so it's ~always on a tight schedule quite predictably.
diana_coman: and you know, postponing the deadline is something to do the day before, not one hour before the deadline, as I'm quite sure you know already.
diana_coman: whaack: ha, Romanian teachers @ Stuyvesant! I had no idea, lol.
diana_coman: whaack: and at MIT too? iirc there's actually at least a former highschool classmate of mine at MIT, lolz.
dorion_road: diana_coman thanks for the article feedback. what did you infer what I wanted to say ?
whaack: diana_coman: haha yup. I think that they may have all left though, I know my two teachers did.
whaack: diana_coman: I'm sure there are some at MIT too although I don't remember any.
diana_coman: dorion_road: heh, now you want me to pack your whole article in a sentence on the spot too?
dorion_road: diana_coman re the tight schedule, I think it's been an acknowledgement of how much there is to do; these last few weeks are showing me approaching it on a tight schedule isn't the best way to go about it.
dorion_road: diana_coman heh, I'm trying to ask question here !
diana_coman: dorion_road: a question you certainly asked :)
diana_coman: dorion_road: do you find you'd rather spend all the time on tmsr-os reading/writing/thinking and so you cram the rest only if/as needed on the side? because frankly this is how it looks like from outside.
dorion_road: diana_coman I'm seeing that's what I have been doing and learning that's not sustainable.
diana_coman: whaack: you'd be surprised re "all left" ie some may have left and there's still plenty just waiting to get there instead and "live the dream"; it's exactly that after all, more of their own imagination than actual cold fact.
dorion_road: diana_coman these next few days I don't have any tmsr os articles planned, so will balance myself out and then jfw is arriving here tomorrow through the weekend.
diana_coman: dorion_road: how do you mean/see this balancing?
asciilifeform: << got it, ty
snsabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 08:03:31 diana_coman: asciilifeform: comment liberated, will answer it soon too.
diana_coman: dorion_road: more than just not sustainable, it's also not best even for you getting where you want to with tmsr os itself; this was my original point re "not in isolation"; for one thing it's quite a central item anyway; for the rest, you need to integrate a lot to figure out a path for it too so narrow focus won't work best even if it were sustainable by itself (it does sound more like leading to burnout but anyway).
dorion_road: diana_coman I mean I have a buffer of time where I can re-evaluate how to proceed in re-balancing to more sustainability.
dorion_road: diana_coman you're exactly right about the importance of integration.
diana_coman: dorion_road: all right; take that time then and let's see what comes out of the re-evaluation.
dorion_road: thank you diana_coman
diana_coman: you're welcome.
whaack: diana_coman: Can't say I'd be too surprised, I've noticed that the 'chumpatron' or what have you cycles through people of the same culture.
whaack: diana_coman: The install article is done. Going to do my writing for today and then get to work on the next steps of the irc-exploration project. The trip to Santa Cruz is scheduled for tomorrow, everything should be there: presents, keyboard, computer, and debit card.
diana_coman: whaack: there are some vpatches with sha and some with keccak, seriously??
diana_coman: also, you should provide at least some checksums for those archives you mirrored.
whaack: diana_coman: Yeah the different types of vpatches were a bit of a PITA. Especially when I had to find that bug related to have one space ' ' vs two spaces ' ' with keksum vs. sha512sum
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 18:47:42 whaack: jfw: hm a small detail I noticed about keksum. the output contains 1 space between the hash and the filename, whereas my shasum on my mac and sha512sum on ubuntu contains 2 spaces between them. Afaik there's nothing wrong with your choice, and i don't know why those other hash functions put 2 spaces instead of 1, but I have to tweak my a little more to make it be compatible with this.
diana_coman: whaack: you should point trinque to that at the very least.
whaack: trinque: The few pain points in downloading your sources: The biggest is the above problem where some of the vpatches are made with sha512sum and some with keccak. The other is the directory format is inconsistent, for logbot and ircbot you have an extra directory /v/ before /patches/ and /seals/. The last is that the naming convention of the vpatch files is inconsistent. For example for most of your tools (such as geepeegee) you n
whaack: ame your genesis simply 'genesis.vpatch' but for ircbot and logbot you name the genesis 'ircbot-genesis.vpatch' and 'logbot-genesis.vpatch'
whaack: diana_coman: Okay I will update the post with the checksums right now.
whaack: diana_coman: Tackling the two headed beast, I am going to be splitting my time between reading the books recommended by trinque and moving forward with the irc project. I am starting to read The Art of the Metaobject Protocol right now. Later today will work on setting up a process monitor. The process monitor will run on a separate machine, and check every ~2 seconds to see if TheFleet is running. If it detects the process is dead
whaack: , the monitor will (1) alert in channel and (2) run a command to restart TheFleet
whaack: (TheFleet being the name of the process that logs all irc channels on all irc networks.)
diana_coman: whaack: ok.
diana_coman: dorion_road: on a 3rd re-read of your +ev article, it strikes me that it seems to actually start going somewhere only at the 6th para really; and some of the previous ones are quite incomprehensible.
diana_coman: e.g. "A strong individual identity is unique and expensive to replicate which generates signatures that are expensive to forge" - what??
diana_coman: basically up to that 6th para you seem to jot down your own notes rather than saying something clearly.
diana_coman: - so to answer your stated question: I think you are trying to make the point that tmsr-os strengthens both individual contributors directly and the larger environment; you have some concrete ideas & points as to how and why but your article doesn't really marshall them in any orderly way.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 11:39:45 dorion_road: diana_coman thanks for the article feedback. what did you infer what I wanted to say ?
diana_coman: whaack: what's your current plan re networks and chans + joins?
whaack: diana_coman: I don't have one yet. The first work that needs to be done is determine the number of channels and networks that are in existence and then design TheFleet based on those numbers. I haven't begun to do this, I was going to start by looking at the list of networks from thimbronion's attempt to contact admins.
diana_coman: dorion_road: should add: the article doesn't quite make the ideas & points all that clear first of all; the lack of setting them properly to work comes after.
whaack: diana_coman: Also I need to determine what criteria a channel must meet for TheFleet to put a nick inside the channel.
diana_coman: whaack: well, you don't need to plan it ALL upfront really; for one thing it might very well be that each network has its own specific requirements/whatever so ..
diana_coman: whaack: well, I don't even know *what* information you can get automatically from each network.
diana_coman: afaik you can get the list of chans
diana_coman: not sure if anything more than that re each chan, at least not without joining so...
diana_coman: whaack: from the other side too, why would it NOT join a channel, anyway
diana_coman: ?
diana_coman: let it join, what; collect data for 1 month and then see; if it gets kicked from a chan, let the chan be, not like I want to force anyone now out of the hole they enjoy, what.
whaack: diana_coman: The only reason it would not join a channel in set P is if P is too large.
diana_coman: what is "too large" and why?
whaack: diana_coman: I don't know the max number of channels the bot could handle, but for one it can't sit in all possible channel names.
whaack: diana_coman: If possible it may be interesting to preemptively park it in empty channels, such as all channel names that are words in the English dictionary.
diana_coman: whaack: well, you should certainly know that max number of channels the bot can handle, heh; and then it's not ONE bot but a fleet so they split the chans as needed, no? in extremis, you can further simply cover subsets on different time frames.
diana_coman: eh, I want it to log one month of each and every chan that exists, not as much to create new ones now, what would that do?
diana_coman: it may be different exact 4 weeks for different chans, that's not a problem in itself.
whaack: diana_coman: Say a dorion and jfw type pop in a channel to talk, and we are already there to catch that conversation
diana_coman: if anything, I suppose the holidays season would make perhaps for less activity
diana_coman: whaack: so what? I'm not after snooping on what people happen to say every other time in a blue moon/wherever they hide from mommy or something.
diana_coman: sure, such cases may exist, some chan coming alive with 2-3 people once per week or dunno; but if it doesn't happen at least ONCE in a month, I'd say it's really not worth anything.
diana_coman: even that is quite finegrained as it is.
diana_coman: whaack: also, you made me curious - what's a "dorion and jfw type" anyway?
whaack: diana_coman: aha. I meant a pair of people doing something interesting.
whaack: diana_coman: They would be possibly sitting in channels that are hard to find / not listed
diana_coman: whaack: eh, then they are not yet doing something interesting :P
diana_coman: by definition of "interesting"
whaack: haha fair enough
diana_coman: whaack: not directly related but at least it pinged now through my weirdly wired thoughts: you mentioned (to lobbes I think) your alumni mailing list and similar; is there anything interesting happening *there*?
diana_coman: or for that matter, aren't any of your former colleagues at stuyvesant or mit doing anything interesting ffs?
whaack: diana_coman: I haven't seen any interesting activity on the mailing list in a while. However there are people with keys and I think some that may be quite interesting in joining #o should they learn about it.
diana_coman: interesting or interested? lolz; anyway, why not talk to them at least, see where they are and what they are up to?
whaack: diana_coman: I will do that. There is some discussion about doing more meeting / introductions that happened on the mailing list a few days ago. I organized a bitcoin meetup once with about 15 people
diana_coman: as in ...actual people or sheep-people ? :p
diana_coman: when was that?
whaack: diana_coman: A couple of years ago, I think in 2015
diana_coman: what came out of it, anyway?
whaack: diana_coman: ~nothing. I think the meeting itself went well, I did a little presentation on how the btc protocol works, discussed the 'block size debate', people were enganged and asking questions, but I did not follow up with others afterwards.
whaack: diana_coman: It's mostly sheep-people, but also some actual people in the list (imo)
diana_coman: whaack: just to be clear, I don't mean at all to "preach", no; but literally talk to people, find out what they are up to, and only if they ask at all, mention any of the things you think are most interesting for them anyway, from the coolness of "own os" to btc wallet or computer graphics, dunno.
diana_coman: whaack: awww, why not follow up, seriously; that's quite the important part, if you are to get anything for your trouble really.
diana_coman: such surprises you keep to :P
diana_coman: too*
whaack: diana_coman: re not following up - I didn't know better / was lazy.
diana_coman: heh, I see.
whaack: diana_coman: I understand that you don't mean to preach. That said I think a eulora ad may do well on the mailing list
diana_coman: if only I had already the proper client with smg.comms and everything ready too, argh.
whaack: diana_coman: there is no rush, that door will remain open

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