Young Hands
ossasepiaeuloratrilemaspykedtrinquetrilema-hanbotagriculturalsupremacyasciilifeform
1m1d 17h 20m4h 21m4h 21m10d 16h 17m1d 16h 45m13d 18h 48m7h 30m
Ossasepia



BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They're wrestling with international carrier. Will let you know when there's news.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: seems alive atm
asciilifeform: lobbes i'ma mirror your sigs when i wake up
asciilifeform: meanwhile in the analogue room -- asciilifeform already found a logical boojum in sync demo -- will not fetch tails for chans where nuffin was proposed to drop. ( easy to fix, but i've not enuff wake-hours atm to do it just nao )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 21:21:37 asciilifeform: trinque, diana_coman , et al : draft!!! of semi-auto sync mechanism. is only ~demo~, it cannot write to a db, only proposes changes.
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 1h 29m
asciilifeform: further re syncer -- it oughta warn if logic proposes a non-empty drop set but peers fail to offer fill which covers at least it.
asciilifeform: when wake up, may find other omissions.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The complaint is still escalated with emphasis on the pipe not having been near this unstable in the past
asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo , broadcast the barf as it comes in
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local news, meat https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/el-mercado-ganadero-se-recalienta-y-el-novillo-especial-llego-a-un-record-de-us-4-15-2019103221458
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ftr none of the pipe deaths so far have been long enuff to murder my 24/7 shell. but still annoying in re bot.
asciilifeform: fleanode will reliably throw if 1+min of 0packet.
asciilifeform: come to think of it, the syncer oughta have a timeout , for when a peer is in connectivity limbo
asciilifeform expects that 'adult' synctron will be nearly as complicated as the logger per se...
asciilifeform bbl:meat refuel.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939794 << this is a problem ; probably the best solution's some kind of receivership.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:18:34 asciilifeform: !Qlater tell trinque do you think you can get ben to reappear for long enuff to properly appoint tbf successor ? cuz imho a heavy bag o'coin attached to a beheaded tbf is unseemly and the orig charter offers no gc mechanism for it
mp_en_viaje: on the flimsy grounds that worked ok last we tried it, if naught else.
mp_en_viaje: not even a matter of "want the job". we've nobody even remotely capable of running such a thing, thereby the job is "accrete more people, especially non-male, non-engineer, non-maleengineer-retarded types"
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939803 << ahahahaha ok this is fucken perfect.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:33:01 asciilifeform: asks again, 'boy...' finally boy takes off helmet and utters : 'sir, i fess up, i dun know these things, cuz i aint a REAL WELDER!!!'
mp_en_viaje: yes, precisely as in story -- the subject of self-delusion AND HIM ONLY goes about the world "under spell" of "the spell".
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939804 << by now year is 1800++, turks failed to conquer vienna but succeeded in becoming even more polite than the vienese.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:42:18 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939730 << i thought turks mainly picked up youngest-sons for the yenicheri corps
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939806 << are you kidding me, vlach chicks a++ grade, very in demand.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:42:53 asciilifeform: ( and chix, but from designated breeding grounds which afaik at no pt included wallachia & co )
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939807 << i beleive the ~self-petrification~ they invented on the basis of their understanding of saintly behaviours virtues and outcomes is discussed in the logs somewhere.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:46:59 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939710 << funnily enuff, the crypto-christians left behind in jp after missionaries expelled, mutated into such a bizarre fork chain that modern church does not recognize'em as anyffin at all ( they mutter unrecognizable chants , which at some pt in 17th c were latin , from phonetic crib sheets to this day... but elsewise resemble 'insular buddhist sect' very cl
diana_coman: meanwhile an initial look at irc networks suggests they might be ~all about as lively as a corpse really; but anyways, oftc, undernet, espernet and dalnet seem to have made it to the top to be contacted in the coming days.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939815 << how's this for a proposedly "better" algo : 1. syncer is given target T ; 2 sincer loads tip of T (as the whole day page, DP), compares to its own record ; 3. if comparison results in any difference, syncer produces list L in the format of #count, own line, T line and moves to 4. which consists of repeating algo for DP-1.
mp_en_viaje: then once this is done syncer spits out paste consisting of aggregate L in response to command given in 1, and accepts as response a succession of bits (0, 1) telling it which to take where.
mp_en_viaje: in this manner all-1 operator response will result in the behaviour you specced ; and anything else will result in finer control (at the obvious added cost of bothering to paste a buncha 1's in a paste).
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 15:55:27 asciilifeform: folx w/ mathematical inclinations, invited to comment re auto-sync algo described in #o .
mp_en_viaje: imo is better because at least creates ~a record~ of the type of problems we're solving which not only might spark refinements downstream, but will also constiute a phenomenologically blessed test set for any such refinements, permitting ~RATIONAL~ acception or rejection if/when it comes to.
mp_en_viaje: this is not usually given enough thought (in the sense of, any, for the scope of "free and open" shitsource) -- but the most important part of software development is the construction of the rational basis of merge decisions.
mp_en_viaje: the rms/ers/retardsonwheels brushing it under the rug, "oh, you'll know when you see it" is probably the chief idiocy ensuring their loud, miserable, pollutant-ladden failure.
mp_en_viaje: pro-environment ecologically-minded left, amirite, in all times and places the principal producer of pollution in this world.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, excellent news!
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939818 << i agree with this, make the index loglines if your whole thing is trying to order sets of lines by cardinal.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 16:06:23 diana_coman: asciilifeform: why use timestamps rather than log lines number though? I don't get how is that better at all; ie give syncer "last known ok line", should drop anything with id > that for the chan; then import everything with id > that from the reference
mp_en_viaje is not necessarily convinced that this is important or necessarily a goal ; but seens nothing wrong whatsoever with the attempt as such and has no objection to helping.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939824 << b specifically may be "the one girl with the one pubic hair with one crabs egg on it" sorta item, as it seems to carry the capacity to bring the whole system to criticality.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 16:08:48 asciilifeform: so, to complete the picture, this algo is guaranteed to work correctly if a) one of the peers actually contains the complete log segment for time T .. present b) no one speaks in the interval while it operates c) the timestamp T correctly represents the cutoff
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939856 << you will notice that the whole echafaudage is specifically design to keep the world-elements at a low roar. if everything ran hot 24/7 i'd be seen in corner sharpening axe for imminent beheadings of misbehaving lords that failed to produce castles or w/e it is they failed to do -- in any case the situation's failure.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 16:26:11 asciilifeform: atm the hand-operated sync only feels practical because there is very little traffic in most of the chans. if all 6 were burning hot 24/7 , could take many hrs of frustrated cranking to actually sync'em all.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939858 << lol no, you should ask him if i gave him a فرمان
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 16:27:36 asciilifeform: lobbes do you want it logged by the orchestra ?
mp_en_viaje: if you don't put any teeth behind the whole thing it'll collapse into chaos.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939865 << lol no, you're supposed to ask for one of those deed things
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 16:50:29 lobbes: once I make that switch, I would not mind it being logged if folx are willing to log it
mp_en_viaje: wut is all this awkwarding anyways!
mp_en_viaje: you have the "awkward"ness cutter, fucken use it, wtf are you trying to recreate esltard existence ?
mp_en_viaje: "oh let's go to lunch" "okay..." "where'd you like to go ?" "oh i dunno... anywhere i guess" "is steak'n'sheak okay?" "oh i dunno... shall we ask sarah too?" holy shit enough.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939870 << so add the first however many fit by last-updated in there, and permit "hacked" url notation anyway. eg right now "trilema" as listed links http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema ; but http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/xxx works in any case, whether it's listed or not, so all's good.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 18:34:20 asciilifeform: sumthing clever ~will~ have to be done w/ the header , 7 might even fit right nao, but 8 defo won't..
mp_en_viaje: alternatively, charge a fee for listing, by adding a small "be here" link, leading to a page, explaining that everyone there is there by ahving paid, and if you pay more than the one who paid least you get the top spot for as long as that lasts.
mp_en_viaje: and list how much the current listed paid you, which'd be as it stands 0.
mp_en_viaje: (this multi-slot auction mechanism as described is actually a lot smarter than maybe realised at first sight, it does exactly what leftards claim capitalism can not do.)
mp_en_viaje: but then again there's a reason they came up with an euphemistic name for their idiocy in the first place. leftards claiming capitalism doesn't work is like oligophrens "preferring to be called" beautiful lip people, pretending speech doesn't work.
mp_en_viaje: one final thing : it's not clear to me exactly if img.inline { margin: 0.5em auto 1em auto; display: block; border: 1px solid black; width: 34em; } is how you opted to specify the header for the logger site. if so, it's dumb for the following reasons : 1. that it's not called anything like that, or even anything arbitrary, but something mechanically-ineptly der
mp_en_viaje: ived from something it very much is not making identification a lot more doubtful than they need to be, it's like nominalist sabotage ; 2. you specify a fixwidth, in FUCKING EMS. wtf, ems are for glyphs, it's like giving your height in delta-pascals.
mp_en_viaje: in any case, it's narrower than the actual log on my screen. imo the "<meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width" you start with is correct ; but if you're not willing for some reason to apply the implicit scaling throughout, at least pick an arbitrary pixel size (1024, 1280, whatever viewports most commonly are in your view) and use that.
mp_en_viaje: http://archive.is/YbYXd << also narrower here.
mp_en_viaje: since we're doing visuals, imho the time delay should be on the tooltip not on the actual page. that way you can have two lines even. but if you want to keep the time on display, imo the chan-time tuple should came in ~individual~ single line wrappings.
mp_en_viaje: as it is the 6m from eulora bleeds into spyked/7h block
mp_en_viaje: and yet another final thing : having fixwidth block display elements affords you a very good solution to the exact problem you're dealing with : how to put N elements in space for Q elements. what you do is, declare the fixwidth block element with the display widh you wand and with content of the N element ~sorted somehow~. then on display block element will only show the first Q, leaving the rest offscreen ~but still on the
mp_en_viaje: page, ie, available to mechanical reader~.
mp_en_viaje: then if later the sorting mechanism sorts them otherwise, meatviewer will show a diff Q-selection, while all the while mechanical viewer sees the same N
mp_en_viaje: one of those excellent things the w3c retards did by accident.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939872 << yeah, the trilema-name thing is rather an artefact of "how to do what http://trilema.com/2019/concedo-hoc/ does before we have it).
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 18:57:15 asciilifeform: lobbes: #lobbes is imho preferable to the other. (seems to be the de-facto standard presently)
mp_en_viaje: i'd agree since last month obsolete.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939873 ha, not a bad idea
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 18:57:52 asciilifeform: lobbes: if you want to emphasize that it's a mp-endorsed castle, put the deed in the chan subjline like in #a.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939875 << why not lol!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 20:24:25 lobbes: still ain't a mp-endorsed castle either. I figure that time may come one day, but that time isn't now as far as I can tell.
mp_en_viaje: omfg act to reduce unknowns. RATIONAL BEHAVIOUR it is called. the fucking reason you, as a serious engineer, try things ~one at a time~ rather than in random configurations is that you're trying to reduce unknowns. not to nurse old unknowns into survival and perhaps even invent new ones ?!
mp_en_viaje: if you don't know whether your lamp is broken because the power plug's dead, the cable inside is fucked, or the lightbulb dead, you don't first built a spaceship out of that lamp and "see then". you replace the lightbulb first, see if it fixes it. then from there, ONE THING AT A TIME.
mp_en_viaje: so if you don't know, ask ; i'll either give you the thing or else tell you why not, at which point ~you'll fucking know why not~. see ?
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939876 << i thought as it stands they're good forever, which is how eg spyked 's bot was voicing itself.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 21:06:09 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937851 << so here's an idea. suppose you could define a ttl on your voice tokens, i.e. "worx until block x". then folks could pile them up for travels.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939883 << because it's just wireframe anyway, we don't bother fixing unbroken things. should this issue excavate itself into relevancy, we'll prolly just point-to-point around it. but so far...
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 21:15:31 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938022 << if you're hardening against the unreliability of freenode, why use freenode as your sync transport?
mp_en_viaje: we still have more work to do than people to do it as it stands.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939899 << lol apparently i managed to miss out a lot while taking less than a day to do slutty things with sluts -- i last spoke 11h and apparently was supposed to give above proposal significantly before 21h. how the fuck am i to do this is anyone's guess ; the consolation prize's that all the sluts in the joint crowded my table / gifted me bras / shoved tits in my face wh
mp_en_viaje: ile the three dozen dudes lined the bar being incels-with-beers (deserted bar, as even the fucking waitress was sitting at my table, kissing random girls for drinks).
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 21:29:19 asciilifeform: if two peers offer the same length of tail, the peer with the higher priority (indicated by order of mention in config) is chosen.
mp_en_viaje: but srsly now... can maybe consider giving people A DAY if you ask for comments ?
mp_en_viaje: i don't mind so much, personally, but perhaps others harder to console.
mp_en_viaje: geddit ? console ?
mp_en_viaje: which reminds me, as it happens, of last night. so i order a pile of vodka shots, and this nice tits chinese looking but not chinese girl wants one, so i'm like... well, you gotta kiss the waitress. who's as surprised as anyone by the sidden turn of events, "you know, i've been working here for years, i've never seen anything likethis" "yeah, that's what girls usually say to me". then she went around asking randomly, "hey, a
mp_en_viaje: nyone ever took your bra ?" "well... i mean boyfriends but like... no, nobody said give me your bra, hand it over, etc like that, no" "so it's the first time" "yeah!" and on it went, apparently every girl there had some first time experience that night with yours truly.
mp_en_viaje: after which she agrees, if sluts want drinks they gotta get them from her (being as she's the waitress, makes sense) but she ominously warns us that... well... she has a virus.
mp_en_viaje: *pause*
mp_en_viaje: cuz she's austrian, see, an' about as awkward in english as you'd like, she's perhaps last week had the flu, maybe. this comes out as "she has a virus".
mp_en_viaje: the matter behind us they kiss, slut gets her shot, and as she's about to do to it what it was asking for (the shot i mean) i'm right in there... "to your health!"
mp_en_viaje: anyway, i suppose it's one of those "you had to be there for" things.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939914 << well conceivably there'll be a time threshold any automated detection's not possible past ; and it probably is about that large, seeing how freenode pings are half minute in the first place.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 22:21:16 asciilifeform: outage apparently over, but, annoyingly, bvt's patched bot did NOT correctly detect the disconnect.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939944 << by my own diagnosis it seems entirely very unlikely the dc's fault ; but rather looks like some ipx upstream either in brazil or with the main carribean ring in florida.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 23:52:38 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They're wrestling with international carrier. Will let you know when there's news.
mp_en_viaje: bullshit started a few months ago, when sporadically reported, and it'll prolly continue until l3 or whoever operates the sick interchange point gets their shit in order.
mp_en_viaje: nothing wsrong with keeping the dc in the know so they don't take you for yokels ; but nothing gained by twisting their neck either, they're not doing it.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1939947 << apparently i get my day anyway, alf's insta-coding frenzies rarely produce complete items huh.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 00:17:05 asciilifeform: meanwhile in the analogue room -- asciilifeform already found a logical boojum in sync demo -- will not fetch tails for chans where nuffin was proposed to drop. ( easy to fix, but i've not enuff wake-hours atm to do it just nao )
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1939954 << perhaps in pizarro ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 00:21:57 asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo , broadcast the barf as it comes in
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1939959 << well duh. wtf is a logging bot if not... syncer ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 00:26:32 asciilifeform: expects that 'adult' synctron will be nearly as complicated as the logger per se...
mp_en_viaje: anyways, i'll be around for a while, giving the whores a day off before they start dying of exhaustion under me.
mp_en_viaje: in other top keks, my multi-ip exit bridge here is breaking everything, had to reload http://thimbron.com/2019/10/wip-irc-takeover-initial-findings/#comment-21 like a dozen times before coincidentally ip stasyed same long enough to move past the "stale page" thing
mp_en_viaje: but, on the upside, all my outbound's spread over a spectrum for keks an' giggles.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940024 - this is like kindergarten-lesson, found myself repeating "ask!!!" in #o too, no idea why/what is so hard about it.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 05:03:23 mp_en_viaje: so if you don't know, ask ; i'll either give you the thing or else tell you why not, at which point ~you'll fucking know why not~. see ?
diana_coman goes back to futzing-particles in eulora
mp_en_viaje: hai!
mp_en_viaje: i dunno, the one thing about boy engineers is that what they actually want of this world is some way they can futz on these here knobs until the girl over-there takes her panties off.
mp_en_viaje: telepizdesis.
diana_coman: and then teledickensis too ?
mp_en_viaje: meeeeebbe
mp_en_viaje: spyked, http://wp.thetarpit.org/2015/with-our-balls-clean?b=topu&e=#select looks a little weird neh ?
spyked: mp_en_viaje, ooo, thing sending trackbacks already?
mp_en_viaje: ayups
spyked: not sending internal trackbacks tho, prolly because still using old link schema. anyway, lotsa work left still, meanwhile articles will continue pouring there for a while.
mp_en_viaje: your title's swimming amongs left/right links
spyked: yeah and there's other problems with the theme. it's all on the list, incl. proper selection
mp_en_viaje: kk
spyked: also, while doing this importing work I've gathered a (still ongoing) list of broken links that might make for a lulzy blogpost
mp_en_viaje: nb.
mp_en_viaje: ima go out for lunch. laters all!
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939920 <-- moreover, for some reason it seems that passive (i.e. listening) tcp socket much easier to keep open than active one; it's often happened to me to get to irc console in the morning and notice "ping timeout" from server for ??? reason.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 22:28:19 asciilifeform: i find it mighty 'coincidence'(tm) that for year+ we get 24/7 pipe, and then put a logger and nao dulap-I treatment.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940025 <-- indeed, feedbot and spykedbot already use this method. not sure if token even necessarily required forever, in practice will reconnect about once/month
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 05:12:01 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939876 << i thought as it stands they're good forever, which is how eg spyked 's bot was voicing itself.
spyked bbl, meat chores
diana_coman: ouch, snsabot down again
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940024 << yeah I see your point. I get in the habit of assuming instead of asking. /me goes to learn some latin and prepare for a proper ask
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-04 08:03:01 mp_en_viaje: so if you don't know, ask ; i'll either give you the thing or else tell you why not, at which point ~you'll fucking know why not~. see ?
asciilifeform: snsabot restarted by hand. log synced by hand via lobbes ( diana_coman yours appears to be down ! bot & reader both )
asciilifeform: and loox like it'll need a disconnect detector (e.g. '5min w/out incoming pings or lines' would still be 9000x better than the current 'unplugged for hours and still thinks connected' )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i got this from your logotron
asciilifeform ate the log, will process after tea
asciilifeform: really oughta have even moar logotrons, we were down to 1 working unit today
asciilifeform: i'ma put the sync thing on backburner, will instead write a proper disconnection detector, cuz this is ridiculous
diana_coman: asciilifeform: ossabot fell down for a bit too and machine was reset so I need to find out from isp wtf; grrr.
diana_coman: all 3 loggers seem synced atm; ossabot is back too, though still waiting to find out wtf happened exactly.
asciilifeform: piz pipe down !!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: With the more intense monitoring two of the rockchips were hit with incoming connection floods.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: pretty interesting. canhaz detail ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Putting a GPG gram together
asciilifeform: seems like diana_coman's box in europistan may've been included in the festivities also
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=5tKz
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: lobbes Rockchip was hit, later my rockchip was hit
diana_coman: shucks, 1 min please to sync the shit
BingoBoingo: Looking at the connection messages on chan lobbes seems to be using a cloak, but dianacoman's bot appears to not be
diana_coman: got dammnit
diana_coman: should be synced now, thank you
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: yes, my bot is not cloaked; dunno if that would make much of a diff tbh
BingoBoingo: I suspect someone may be crapflooding IPs displayed in join/part messages on one of the channels. This can be a problem because cloak discipline appears to have gone soft.
diana_coman: I'm still waiting on the isp to tell me wtf went on
asciilifeform: i dun think cloaks have anyffin to do with it
asciilifeform: it aint as if the ips are any kinda seekrit, in all cases
diana_coman: that's why I didn't really bother re cloak because the ip is public anyway
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ftr pipe still stone dead
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Not particularly dead as my bouncer's connected
diana_coman: asciilifeform: there was a bit earlier some weird stuff, couldn't connect to smg servers + eulora client fell down for lack of response from server
diana_coman: after a while it got back though, currently responding
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aaand my shells finally fell.
diana_coman: there seems to be some overall bad-internet-weather as far as I can see
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Apparently the full block down due to flooding
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: longest dulap outage since plugged in, as of nao.
asciilifeform: and continuing.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=f0Lq
asciilifeform: so BingoBoingo what exactly are we paying these people for ? 'isp but if not too many packets' ?!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Someone appears to be hopping around and hitting addresses. DDoS is an unsolved problem.
asciilifeform: atm that meter's fucking running but the taxi aint movin'!!
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> that's why I didn't really bother re cloak because the ip is public anyway << Even the most trivial barrier does something, like prevent lurkbots from harvesting addresses as they connect.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i doubt any of this has anyffin to do with cheapo lurkbots or any similar
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/0a5-work-plan-vi.html << The Tar Pit -- Work plan for M10 2019
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I don't see a simpler narrative for why diana_coman's bot went down too.
diana_coman: fwiw, it may well be, sure.
diana_coman: ddos attack seems to be.
asciilifeform: piz pipe still dead.
asciilifeform: ( and seems like ddos is only half the problem , the other half is pipe vendor's immunocascade ? )
diana_coman: moldavians seem to be doing fine so far ie attack still on from what they say but not making it through.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: through what are you connected ? whole piz house seems to be unplugged
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I am presently connected through not a bouncer
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what's the plan on latech co's side ? we pay'em and they give us a pretend-pipe ?
asciilifeform: and in turn, piz subscribers are also paying for pretend-boxen ?!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: "The attacks are moving on the range. It started with .97, then move to .99, then to .200 and so on." This supports lazy attack targeting uncloaked irc connections.
BingoBoingo: The omissions strongly suggest uncloaked IRC connections drew the aggro
asciilifeform: i suppose this could explain what these are for
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-02 14:08:12 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939628 << seems to lurk in #a too. perhaps the current enemy spy, i have nfi
BingoBoingo: The cloak is not perfect protection, but it does frustrate the lazy sort of attack we appear to have been struck by
BingoBoingo: I suspect what happened is a long stretch of relatively calm weather got a lot of people complacent on the matter of IRC cloaks.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i still dun see the matter of 'from where' as settled -- it aint as if the addrs of tmsr www boxen are anyffin but public
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: are you saying that "have a cloak -> no problem" or what exactly?
BingoBoingo: I am saying have cloak, ever so slightly more protected in theory yet substantially more protected in practice
diana_coman: ok but the problem is still there, only ...better hidden, no/
asciilifeform: it does seem that the box where 'uncloaked' lobbesbot connects from , was on the nuke rotation, whereas e.g. asciilifeform's local pipe -- not
BingoBoingo: Well, now with cloaks attacker HAS to reveal that they are targeting
asciilifeform: this supports BingoBoingo's hypothesis of 'shrapnel addressed to occupant' (vs 'bullet w/ name on it')
asciilifeform: incidentally iirc fleanode only supports cloaks if user connects sslistically. which asciilifeform's bot does not.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It does appear the SSLism for cloaks is still optional, but a delay needs to be inserted between authentication and joining channels
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there is already such delay.
asciilifeform: and no, per the docs, not optional, i.e. the naked ip is broadcast ~unless~ you log in 'in one shot' via their ssliquishit.
asciilifeform: see also this
ossabot: (pizarro) 2019-10-04 thimbronion: fwiw my bouncer (running on non-pizarro box) was disconnected yesterday, and a few days prior, and although I have a cloak, it does not get applied before bouncer rejoins channels.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: at the risk of repeating, what's yer plan for getting the pipe back ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I trying to start by getting the portions of the range without known, uncloaked IRC bouncers opened up again. From there we continue trying to open things up.
asciilifeform: soo, open all but the actually used boxes , lol ??
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: We have to start from somewhere
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: asciilifeform eulora server unreachable; my blog idem.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: they're both in piz house neh
asciilifeform: whole thing is offline
asciilifeform: for hr+ nao
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i guess this is an illuminative experiment re the q of what it is we actually get for that ( pretty hefty, quite enuff to keep three bus-fuls of orcs in empanadas erry month ) pipe fee. turns out not 200Mb/s , but 'what we feel like aint too hard' ??
asciilifeform: what, i wonder, would a '200Mb/s or we-pay-you' cost.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: We have an asymmetrical pipe. The 200Mb/s is traffic going out of the rack
asciilifeform: even so, if incoming e.g. 50, that 50 oughta consist of a random sampling of the incoming. not 0.
BingoBoingo: It seems to depend on how big the incoming crapflood is and how far upstream they have to go to find a sufficiently wide pipe to cut off the crapflood.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: yes re piz house; I was just noting that those have nothing to do with cloaks and irc at any rate.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: well since latech appears to have in fact pulled our plug, it is no surprise that they're unreachable ~nao~
asciilifeform: what condition they were in prior to this event, i do not know
diana_coman: o.O they mitigated by unplugging the paying customer, I see.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: indeed they did, i thought it was clear from last hr of #t
diana_coman had to follow quite a few things at the same time during this last hr so didn't focus on pizarro specifically.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: seems to be that 'unplug customer' is the only way anybody mitigates ddos.
diana_coman: dunno, moldavians managed to mitigate it sanely without unplugging my logger
asciilifeform: diana_coman: moldavia has advantage of not being on monkey continent and not relying on single pipe to civilization, i suspect
asciilifeform: diana_coman: that being said, i also suspect that yer box is only standing because piz is taking 90% of the fire
diana_coman: asciilifeform: uhm, how does that reasoning go? they fire less at my box because one box or what? anyways, is there at least any concrete communication from piz's data centre re what they are doing otherwise exactly?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if latech is to be believed, it's a rotating ddos
diana_coman: asciilifeform: ok, but the point here is that moldavians managed to mitigate it while under fire.
diana_coman: not that "oh, so currently not under fire because they are firing at piz"
BingoBoingo headed to the rack
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to post the next despatch from latch in cleartext, i see no reason to whisper these
diana_coman: works in #pizarro, I'll go and read
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i expect that before this is through, we'll find out just what tonnage of liquishit the moldavian folx are able to digest
diana_coman: can't hurt either
asciilifeform: mp's www fwiw doesn't seem visibly affected. so prolly not included on the magick list.
asciilifeform: ( either that, or simply outlandish margin of spare pipe bought from last time when he ~was~ included )
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's www ( still parked on ancient heathen hoster atm ) also not visibly dinged.
asciilifeform: does give a little support to the hypothesis that original demasking signal was via irc.
asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940177 << i oughta expand re this. ddos is cheap but not free, if the 1e6 or whatnot winblowz boxen were evenly split to piss into 20 diff addrs, would not amount to much effect. so traditionally rotates, e.g. 3min to 1, then to next, and so on, in circle.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-04 17:32:32 diana_coman: asciilifeform: uhm, how does that reasoning go? they fire less at my box because one box or what? anyways, is there at least any concrete communication from piz's data centre re what they are doing otherwise exactly?
asciilifeform: incidentally, anyone else think this is not entirely accidentally coinciding with the start of the festivities ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 17:53:51 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/10/dutch-bulletproof-host-down-eurocops-plea-mirai-botnet/ << Qntra -- Dutch "Bulletproof" Host Down, EuroCops Plea "Mirai Botnet"
asciilifeform: 'свято место пусто не бывает'(tm)(r)
asciilifeform: !!up BingoBoingo
deedbot: BingoBoingo voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ty in the basement on junkyard wars connection
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i thought whole cage were nullrouted ?
BingoBoingo: I have stopped irissi, weechat, and znc services on the shared machine. I am about to request the portion of the IP space not known to be running uncloaked bouncers is restored shortly.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: This terminal is on a radiomodem atm
asciilifeform: a
mp_en_viaje: so did you folk get a banhammer smack or something ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: whole thing in log ( diana_coman's and lobbes's, naturally ), it's reasonably compact
mp_en_viaje: a ok, ima get to it then
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: Got flooded, appears to have been one of the lurkers havesting uncloaked ips and shooting
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: summary : rotating ddos, not even limited to piz
BingoBoingo: brb
mp_en_viaje: oh, that old thing
mp_en_viaje: amusingly, muh thing here unmolested apparently, i got complete scrollback even
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: seems like only folx regularly throwing ips in the log, affected.
mp_en_viaje: im not cloaked am i ?!
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: nope. but iirc you're on a phased array of euro pipes, not individually routable to from outside also eh
mp_en_viaje: um. gotta be routable or else how would interwebs werk
mp_en_viaje: what is this halfass cvasi-dos ffs, i thought we're talking srs bzns
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it's a small ddos, as they come, but compounded by the hamfistedness of piz upstream. BB is in the cage atm bazaring w/em
asciilifeform meanwhile wrote patch for bot to make it actually detect disconnects. is in staging box locally.
mp_en_viaje: i c
mp_en_viaje: aite, ima brb writing article then
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, panzers! logotron tree updated w/ detect_disconnect.kv.vpatch . << lobbesbot , diana_coman
asciilifeform: tested (by setting absurdly small interval; throws, reconnects, as expected; then by setting 3min -- operates normally, pings typically come erry 45s or so)
asciilifeform: if deploying, make sure to see readme & example config re knob.
asciilifeform would deploy nao, if had a working box to deploy to...
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: you had some a++ q's re syncism etc, but i'ma answer'em after piz not on fire .
mp_en_viaje: no roosh.
asciilifeform: aite.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: thanks, I'll have a look; fwiw so far bvt's fix actually worked well for ossabot
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the old one worx a++ on 'organic' i.e. fleanode-initiated disconnects. but sadly not on pipe death
diana_coman: it did reconnect properly the times when it just lost connection; hm, the log I saw for when unreachable, it was trying to connect
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the new one simply demands that ~something~ come down the pipe erry disc_t seconds. recc'd value 180 .
asciilifeform: (at the very least, when live conn, will have pingism from fleanoad erry ~45s )
asciilifeform: and yes bvt's reconnector worx a++.
asciilifeform: tested just nao w/ this item.
asciilifeform: i noticed last night that on none of the piz outages did the thing actually realize it's dead. hence this patch.
asciilifeform: 'To disable forced disconnects, set disc_t to zero' is wrong btw. will give actual off switch on next patch.
asciilifeform has internal policy of not regrinding a patch for mistakes in comments; folx oughta read the actual proggy before connecting to live missiles
asciilifeform: ftr i did not put this in genesis because naively supposed that ordinary workings of tcp will in fact throw a connection if the pipe were to unplug. but apparently this aint so
mp_en_viaje: oh, your logger's down huh.
asciilifeform: indeed
asciilifeform: along with errything else in that cage.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939920 << i don't get it, what is the coincidence ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 22:28:19 asciilifeform: i find it mighty 'coincidence'(tm) that for year+ we get 24/7 pipe, and then put a logger and nao dulap-I treatment.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, cool, hanbot was gonna write an article lmao.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940091 <<->> http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940092 those be some pretty lulzy timestamps then
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 11:59:44 diana_coman: all 3 loggers seem synced atm; ossabot is back too, though still waiting to find out wtf happened exactly.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 11:35:37 asciilifeform: piz pipe down !!
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: timestamps (both current & historic) are all over the place. cuz clocks are shite.
asciilifeform: ( and to add insult to injury, when importing logs externally, the peer's times are eaten )
mp_en_viaje: keks
asciilifeform: given how pc clock worx, and the existence of multiple loggers, timestamps in log are somewhere between 'mildly informative' and 'screamingly useless' imho
asciilifeform: when i wrote 1st draft of logotron, i initially made mistake where lines were displayed in order of timestamp. even very old logs became an adventure in wtf upon reading
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940139 << it's not altogether clear what is here meant by "attack".
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 13:41:24 BingoBoingo: The cloak is not perfect protection, but it does frustrate the lazy sort of attack we appear to have been struck by
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it's described further downlog -- appears to be the traditional rotating ddos
mp_en_viaje: i was under the impression you're buying dedicated pipe.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: per the letter of the contract, we are..
mp_en_viaje continues reading
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940146 << wut ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 13:50:07 BingoBoingo: Well, now with cloaks attacker HAS to reveal that they are targeting
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940148 << not afaik the case, mircea_popescu never used ssl. though that may be a grandfathering thing, dunno
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 13:51:15 asciilifeform: incidentally iirc fleanode only supports cloaks if user connects sslistically. which asciilifeform's bot does not.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: possibly grandfathered. when asciilifeform experimented w/ no-sslism connect via own (cloakistic) nick, ended up w/ displayed ip.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940155 << it's very fucking weird to me, all this "trying" and "attacks" and nonsense. did ~you~ ask them to null route your ips is the idea ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 13:58:34 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I trying to start by getting the portions of the range without known, uncloaked IRC bouncers opened up again. From there we continue trying to open things up.
bvt: asciilifeform: on the non-logging bot.py i used for testing my vpatch, i got pings from freenode only every ~140 seconds -- not 30-45 definitely
asciilifeform: lol why would BingoBoingo ask for such thing
mp_en_viaje: well then wtf.
asciilifeform: bvt: 180 appears to work (tested for coupla hrs) but may need empirical test.
mp_en_viaje: anyways, in trying to evaluate... duration... i look at http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940161 and wonder... how long since this "nao" ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 14:14:09 asciilifeform: for hr+ nao
mp_en_viaje: ie was about 4 hours ago ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 10:48 new york time .
asciilifeform: per asciilifeform's local scroller.
bvt: well yes, 180 > 140; also freenode declares clients dead after ~250 secs of silence, so 180 should work
mp_en_viaje: it's like 4pm now, so 6 hours ?
asciilifeform: indeed!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo are you alive in there ?!
mp_en_viaje: haha, your "isp" was offline for 6 hours because "attacks" ?!
asciilifeform: the idjicy of the upstream piper seems to weigh 9000x what 'attack' weighed.
mp_en_viaje: the problem here'd be that there's only four quarters in each day and with barely thirty days in a month, your uptime comes to... two nines, o rmore precisely 119/120
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/can-you-imagine-what-a-panorama-fartd-be/ << Trilema -- Can you imagine what a Panorama Fart'd be ?!
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940166 << but there's so far no numbers, just epithets. what "big" ? "attacks" is not big.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 14:24:41 BingoBoingo: It seems to depend on how big the incoming crapflood is and how far upstream they have to go to find a sufficiently wide pipe to cut off the crapflood.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: indeed. i'm relying on BB to get some fucknig answers (and the pipe, forfuxxsake)
mp_en_viaje: o wb BingoBoingo
asciilifeform brb 10min,teatime
mp_en_viaje: did you actually get hit with some kind of notable something or wth happened ?
mp_en_viaje keeps diligently reading, and will continue, but so far can't say gleaned much from the exercise.
mp_en_viaje: so far the only constructions seems to be "gringos started asking questions about our shitty uptime, let's nullroute their boxes for a day or so and see".
mp_en_viaje: to which the only possible response would be "hasta la vista, tardsteins"
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940176 << was this "fire" presented in any sense ? do you have a packed dump, anything ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 14:31:54 asciilifeform: diana_coman: that being said, i also suspect that yer box is only standing because piz is taking 90% of the fire
BingoBoingo: I just got off the phone, the are working on getting the upstream to remove the block. Should call back in half an hour.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940178 << this does not actually mean anything. "as far as the doctors can tell it's humoral imbalance". wut ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 14:33:09 asciilifeform: diana_coman: if latech is to be believed, it's a rotating ddos
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, who is this upstream i don't get it ? are we not actually renting space from a dc ?
mp_en_viaje: or is the theory that THE WHOLE DC got cut off, supposedly ?
mp_en_viaje flicked through the news, no "uruguay offline as result of '''rotating dos''' " items caught my eye.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: They say this happened with their international carrier.
BingoBoingo: Their description makes it sound like the whole datacenter was disrupted by the DDoS
mp_en_viaje: http://www.latechco.com/en/data-center.html << 404 of all things
BingoBoingo: http://www.latechco.com/index.php/en/data-center.html loads
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, what's the asn for this dc anyways ?
mp_en_viaje: they don't seem to have the sense to put it on the page
mp_en_viaje: 52241 ?
mp_en_viaje: https://www.robtex.com/as/as52241.html#asnr << not that greatly peered, basically antel.
BingoBoingo: AS61442
mp_en_viaje: o ?
mp_en_viaje: https://www.robtex.com/as/as61442.html << same story, minus the (~worthless) claro peerage.
BingoBoingo: Outside the WTC "Free Zone" their official registered Uruguay corp goes by PASWER INTERNATIONAL S.A.
mp_en_viaje: okay, so basically the most favourable idea is uruguay's state monopoly nulled your ips block for you
asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940295 << the sea cable doesn't literally terminate in our cage, sadly
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-04 20:07:21 mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, who is this upstream i don't get it ? are we not actually renting space from a dc ?
BingoBoingo: I'm feeling rather sore. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-10-04#1940367 << The other grating idea is they nulled the block at Latecho's request
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: any word from these ? even so much as a timetable for getting the service we're paying for ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: phf's logger dun echo. plox to use diana_coman's or lobbesbot
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940186 << i dunno there's any basis for this dreamy alt-logic.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 14:37:17 asciilifeform: mp's www fwiw doesn't seem visibly affected. so prolly not included on the magick list.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: plox to share the 'undreamy' straight-logic then ?
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, in all honesty, so far i can't in the slightest distinguish the spew from the alleged dc from the spew of "virtual server, fiddy bux" provider.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: any word from these ? even so much as a timetable for getting the service we're paying for ? << Their estimate to call back was half and hour issued 16 minutes before the question
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, the fact that trilema doesn't really suffer from "rotating ddos" aka, some dork with a wp list &c, is that trilema is an adult service, rather than a flavour of above mentioned, "virtual server, fiddy bux"
mp_en_viaje: otherwise, there's a script kiddy / week or thereabouts, coming to nigh on a thousand by now.
mp_en_viaje: eg, last when i pissed on the rotards' collected heads.
mp_en_viaje: they don't mention this, of course, "haha, we're fucked in the head, so loser, totally stupid, tried to ddos trilema but it did not werk, we will now give up everything and dedicate remainder of lives to glorification of this our superior"
mp_en_viaje: but nevertheless, the logs, i have. which is kinda the distinguishing factor between man and child in this sense. if real ddos, there's packet captures. if derpitude, there's words.
asciilifeform had just about same observation as in above, but currently at a loss for actionable idea short of buying a trawler and laying own fibers
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-04 17:15:13 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i guess this is an illuminative experiment re the q of what it is we actually get for that ( pretty hefty, quite enuff to keep three bus-fuls of orcs in empanadas erry month ) pipe fee. turns out not 200Mb/s , but 'what we feel like aint too hard' ??
mp_en_viaje: speaking of which, hanbot check out this fucktard : https://tmblog.ro/rahatul-pe-care-l-consumam/#comment-1213
mp_en_viaje: HE STILL DIDN:T GET IT.
mp_en_viaje: actually, i guess it's lulzyrelevant. the "Eh, dar dacă pun un articol cu o țâță, cu o bucă, cu o tipă îmbrăcată sumar sau, cum a fost ultimul, cu 2 tipe plimbate în lesă prin oraș…pac, 10.000 de vizite în primele 3 ore, de m-au sunat oamenii de la firma de hosting că ce se întâmplă, că le pun serverele în cap!" passage roughly translates to a) obscure idiotic blog organised by the remnants of [http://
mp_en_viaje: trilema.com/2009/progresam-maria-ta/][obscure idiots from timisoara] "had 10`000 visits in the first three hours" on meta-piece discussing muh whores (which he doesn't realise YET, such an informed moron he is), and the dc called him because of SERVERS (plural).
mp_en_viaje: such delightful fictive world like one could never invent.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940190 << look, the sort of shit here discussed is https://www.bootyou.net/ sorta ~nothing. if it actually does put you on the fritz, and the hoster starts whining about "attacks" and whatnot, you just need a real hoster.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 14:41:51 asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940177 << i oughta expand re this. ddos is cheap but not free, if the 1e6 or whatnot winblowz boxen were evenly split to piss into 20 diff addrs, would not amount to much effect. so traditionally rotates, e.g. 3min to 1, then to next, and so on, in circle.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-04 17:32:32 diana_coman: asciilifeform: uhm, how does that reasoning go? they fire less at my box because one box or what? anyways, is there at least any concrete communication from piz's data centre re what they are doing otherwise exactly?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: couldja share what it was you said to the latech derps ? cuz i'm getting the impression that you left'em with impression that it is somehow acceptable to nullrout a paying customer's ip block.
BingoBoingo: I'm going to draft an inquiry for the business side contact asking what can be done to keep routine internet weather from incurring a reaction far more destructive than the weather. Will post for review before issuing. In the latest news from the tech team http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=QSzj
mp_en_viaje: they are working with isp huh. aite.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i've had the suspicion since august that these people are overselling their bw.
mp_en_viaje: in other minutia, since i'm using diana_coman 's logviewer i notice that ancient behaviour of, if you click on a link on the page page is reloaded came back. asciilifeform 's viewer does not do this for some reason.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: artifact of browser possibly ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, so far thing doesn't seem all that kosher. i dunno wtf sense this makes, but a sit down with them will hafta happen cuz obviously pizarro's dead in the water like this
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, possibly. why would it behave differently tho
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: heavy page, low mem ? cannot say, but doubt that it is connected to which logotron ( diana_coman's box is running same item as mine was when went down )
mp_en_viaje: can't be exactly same wtf ?!
mp_en_viaje: yours does not reload the page on clicking a link ; hers does
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: does lobbes's same ?
mp_en_viaje looks
mp_en_viaje: um... doesn't seem to load. is this affected by pizarro ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: lobbes's ? loads here. ( not housed in piz )
mp_en_viaje: test
mp_en_viaje: does not reload page.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: not only mp_en_viaje has point, and yer gonna have to talk w/ latech , but is high time to find out what other dc exists in that orcistan, lt's can't be the only 1 ( if it were, would be dangerously close shave in itself, to be had over a barrel )
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, there's a state monopoly on data transfer. can't have meaningfully diff dcs.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i've yet to witness this oddity, where page reloads when link clicked
mp_en_viaje: not from this pov at any rate.
mp_en_viaje: test
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: this may be, but asciilifeform does not yet know on what level of the idjit pyramid took place this particular idjicy.
mp_en_viaje: hm... apparently diana_coman 's doesn't either. i guess i must've caught self in own fingers somehow
mp_en_viaje: aite well... i guess ima bdsm partay nao. best of luck to the beached galley crew!
asciilifeform had similar wtf coupla yrs ago, ended up tracing it to bug in the oddball ~keyboard~ controller he was using
asciilifeform: why ty mp_en_viaje .
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I intend to pointedly ask what other carriers might be more responsive.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: see mp_en_viaje's point above. i suspect he's right
asciilifeform: ( evidently somewhere do exist 'serious adult' carriers, i.e. where mp_en_viaje parks his box. but for some reason he sent BingoBoingo to uy, and not to there )
BingoBoingo: I still have to ask what other carriers are available.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: btw still waiting for call ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Recieved http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=QSzj instead of call
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: keep the heat on the arse.
asciilifeform: dulap was reachable for <1min lol
asciilifeform: ... still dead
BingoBoingo: Most of Pizarro is back. Now we have to figure out how to bring 2 Rockchips and dulap back without them autoconnecting to Freenode cloakless
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: dulap aint autoconnecting. still has old bot.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Aite
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: is it unplugged atm , or wat ?
asciilifeform: was up for <1min then dead again
asciilifeform: e.g. qntra loads
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: it's still nullrouted atm, will poke them.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: listen, the whole 'oh but uncloaked' thing is ridiculous. what, this is isp that falls down when a sparrow farts on it ?!
asciilifeform: what will happen when 7 sparrows fart ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: There are 2 problems here. 1. ISP falls over 2. Uncloaked bouncer means sophisticated attacker can masquerade as lazy sparrow farting attacker
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i aint about to use sslism.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Per their docs it should work without sslism per http://archive.is/dm0Z0#selection-181.30-191.59
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: this is how the current bot logs in. however it dun work with cloaks (except apparently for old accts, e.g. mp's)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you do understand that even if your idea re 'it's a irc ddos bot' is factual , it aint any kind of solution to ddos ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i would also like to find a solution that is cheaper than 'switch continents' . but 'cloak bots and pray to satan that enemy doesn't realize that he already knows the piz ip range' aint any kind of solution !! at all
BingoBoingo: There doesn't seem to be any non-Gossip protocol solution to DDoS. As far as I can cleave the problems right now Latcho/Antel's inept handling of DDoS is one problem. Denying cheap cover to DDoS'r is other problem.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje somehow solves, neh
asciilifeform: it is difficult to argue with his example. his box -- stays up.
BingoBoingo: I suspect 1. blip in Pizarro network causes big batch of IRC reconnects, 2. Pretext to walk IPs emerges, hitting ips from /join messages during window
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: can you drive through the thick heads that 'getting ddos' aint a violation of the service terms, and that the fuckers are obligated to provide service, on whatever level available ?! what is this nullrouting bullshit anyway?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm working on putting together a draft for that. Before I send it, I will paste it in channel because I would like serious feedback to make sure I am putting the right questions and pressure on them.
asciilifeform: if qntra loads, dulap should be reachable, basta
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aite, will read
asciilifeform: http://thewhet.net appears to load. hanbot can write that article nao...
BingoBoingo: !Q later tell billymg You seem to have a naked bouncer running on your Rockchip. Let me know how you want to move forward with getting the machine back online.
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: !Q later tell lobbes You seem to have a naked bouncer running on your Rockchip. Let me know how you want to move forward with getting the machine back online.
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: baitbot (~baitbot@pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #trilema << asciilifeform requests fire on own position!!1
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'm starting to suspect that your theory re irc bots dun hold water
asciilifeform: asciilifeform oughta be drowning in liquishit just about nao, neh
asciilifeform: hrm, lemme put it in all the usual chans & reset.
asciilifeform: there.
asciilifeform: 0 flood.
asciilifeform: so BingoBoingo , can put that hypothesis to rest finally ?
BingoBoingo: We can put to rest the idea that was done in a completely automated way corresponding cleanly to joins
asciilifeform groans
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: is dulap the last 1 left in the cold ? what's the obstacle to gettin' it plugge in atm ?
asciilifeform: e.g. http://ossasepia.com loads..
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Duplap and three Rockchips including mine are left in the cold atm.
asciilifeform: what's the answr to the 2nd half ?
BingoBoingo: I keep playing this fucking game of telephone with Latecho/Antel
asciilifeform: i'ma take a walk an' come back.
BingoBoingo going to keep compiling the pointed questions
BingoBoingo: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=MHHw << Here is a draft of what I have so far to send. asciilifeform mp_en_viaje I would like your input. Please let me know if anything is missing.
BingoBoingo: I also just received http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=4nFG "We can have a call next Monday, if that is OK with your schedule. We think that a firewall will help you with this type of problems."
lobbes coming live from a fresh ZNC install on another box... goes to catch up on logs
asciilifeform: omfgholufuq the idiocy. what 'firewall' . the only ddos problem we have is THEM!!
mp_en_viaje: what's a firewall gonna do in this context ?!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it's ok-ish but what's prominently missing is PLUG DULAP BAKC IN OMFG
mp_en_viaje: was their concern that your boxes were catching on fire ?
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940398 << this would be auctionbot. I dun presently have a cloak for it, so feel free to just kill the process (it is running in sbcl) and that should prevent any naked joins. I can move bot to a non-piz box in the interim
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-04 21:23:32 BingoBoingo: !Q later tell lobbes You seem to have a naked bouncer running on your Rockchip. Let me know how you want to move forward with getting the machine back online.
asciilifeform: lobbes: the cloaks thing is 100% red herring, i have a deliberate bait running for 2+h nao naked, and 0 floods
ericbot: (asciilifeform) 2019-10-04 baitbot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 2h 8m
asciilifeform: it's sitting in all 6 chans, too
lobbes: asciilifeform, heh I saw. Though I'm just a customer; I'll respect BB's wishes if he wants to ban naked joins for the time being
lobbes: in any case, no live auctions atm. I can let it sit for a minute
lobbes: in other lulz, my VPS that hosted the old #e logs is finally back up; connectolade city
BingoBoingo: <mp_en_viaje> what's a firewall gonna do in this context ?! << I have no idea wtf a firewall is supposed to do against an inbound DDoS
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: erry letter to latech, starting with this 1, oughta start with equiv of 'NO NULLROUTE FOR ANY REASON' omfgalready
BingoBoingo: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=maNq << Second draft reflecting the receipt of the offer for a firewall phone call
asciilifeform: ffs BingoBoingo . does that looklike a 'NO NULLROUTES' and 'PLUG IT THE FUCK BACK IN' to you ?
asciilifeform: that last para should be 1st.
BingoBoingo: Take 3 http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=kojY
asciilifeform: much better.
asciilifeform: unless mp_en_viaje contributes an idea for moar bite, let's send this.
asciilifeform: this was ( and continues, dulap still dead ) a maddeningly sovokesque experience, where we pay vendor for fish 'that's what they don't have at the fish counter' but short of borrowing mp_en_viaje's freighter and laying own fiber i can't presently think of a final solution to it
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and we'll have to credit subscribers for the lost time. with substantial adjustment.
asciilifeform: i've had industrial pipes cut out for whole biz day on acct of backhoe. but this aint a backhoe, backhoes make some sorta sense. this dun make sense.
mp_en_viaje: Oscar helpfully shared graphs showing particular IP addresses being hit << were these in here and i missed ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ^ can haz these plox ?
mp_en_viaje: wtf is "apparently hostile", what gave the appearance ? was it the coloring ? something else ?
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I did not post the graphs yet, will post
BingoBoingo: http://pizarroisp.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/image1.png and http://pizarroisp.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/image2.png
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in what units is the vertical in the 1st pic ?
BingoBoingo: Sarcasm with respect to the graph's utility may have been a bit too subtle
asciilifeform: 2nd pic dun look like any kinda ddos at all, simply saturated incoming pipe, happens erry single time anyone uploads a coupla GB of db dump or whatnot
asciilifeform: presently i suspect that we would not have even ~noticed~ this nonsense if they hadn't unplugged
BingoBoingo: I have no idea what te vertical represents
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: didja send that reply or still waiting for sumthing ?
asciilifeform has to go eat soon
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I fired it off
asciilifeform: aite
asciilifeform: ftr this is longest dulap outage since dulap-I was blackbagged.
asciilifeform goes to eat, bbl.
mp_en_viaje: so basically, 20mbps sustained over... looks like 10 minutes or so = too much ?
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, if you're gonna send as is anyway, why the fyuck am i reading it
mp_en_viaje: the reason i asked about the graphs was because, eg, "Oscar helpfully shared graphs showing particular IP addresses being hit with substantial, apparently hostile incoming traffic with targeted at a few IPs in the IP range." is entirely false.
mp_en_viaje: not helpful, not showing, not subsyantial, not apparently or otherwise hostile.
mp_en_viaje: "I would like to know what options are available going forward" is about 500 words too many for the simple concept of
mp_en_viaje: "either you get your shit together or i move on, pick exactly one."
mp_en_viaje: 3. What carriers run fiber to the datacenter? I would like to know what all the connectivity options available are. << dawg ffs, i showed you them.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: Thank you. I am wondering if there's any questions I missed short of going straight to http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940463
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 21:34:03 mp_en_viaje: "either you get your shit together or i move on, pick exactly one."
mp_en_viaje: nevermind questions. 1. i am stuck with customers correctly pointing out that my uptime this month will ~maybe~ reach two nines. it'll be a wonder if this outage doesn't put me entirely out of business. 2. do you have any actual substantial anything to point to, because brandishing about "hostile" and "attack" and etcetera empty wordage isn't doing anything for me. in particular 20mbps for a few minutes doesn't even register
mp_en_viaje: on any kind of radar, i feel like an idiot showing people a trival example of a saturated pipe and pretending like they should be impressed.
mp_en_viaje: so far the situation here is that you stumbled on the cable and took half a day to plug it back in. got anything that can actually move us past this ?
mp_en_viaje: problem is that after you sent the previous yokel text, there's nothing that you can say to deyokel self.
mp_en_viaje: kinda the wisdom of not doing that.
BingoBoingo: Thank you. I guess I'm going to have to do the only things I can right now. 1. eat some food 2. Take a walk, etc and try to have burned more calories in activity today than stress 3. Go to sleep sober
mp_en_viaje: sounds like a plan.
mp_en_viaje: it's not like ~you~ did it , you know. take it easy.
mp_en_viaje personally has no intention of pulling the plug over diana_coman 's inability to do smg work today because of this for instance ;
mp_en_viaje: but you also can't continue in this vein, what, whenever random internet dork sends half a quarter of an eight gbps your way you're croaked for the evening ? tis ridoinculous.
feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2019/10/wednesday-in-wien/ << The Whet -- Wednesday in Wien
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i suppose the next step is to go through the list of ixps see where you can sit.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940365 << i don't even recall now how uy was picked. must've been a lsit and some sorta process
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 17:48:11 asciilifeform: ( evidently somewhere do exist 'serious adult' carriers, i.e. where mp_en_viaje parks his box. but for some reason he sent BingoBoingo to uy, and not to there )
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: Criteria 1 was no nato, russia, or china. Asia sucked and charged incredibly for international conenctivity. Africa is Africa. Inside Latam the options with independently owned datacenters were Brasil and Uruguay. Brasil's paperwork culture appeared even more soviet than Uruguay's with additional visa/residency hoops.
BingoBoingo: Some insane criteria lead Amazon to announce a future Argentine datacenter this week https://archive.is/s0809
BingoBoingo hasn't given thought to an alternate universe where Cambodians respond to commercial inquiries in at least a year
BingoBoingo: A number of Hong Kong operations ended up appearing to be the same operation, while another's major branding was hosted software for the Chinese laundry industry.
asciilifeform back at console, where dulap still not reachable; eats log
asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-05#1940478 << it's been 2+y since the last dig. there's gotta be ~something~ resembling competition, at the level below the orcish national thing. ( fwiw the dc routing cabinet was a glass item and there were defo several groups of panels in it, hanging off what seems like physically distinct fibers to street )
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-05 01:27:12 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i suppose the next step is to go through the list of ixps see where you can sit.
asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-05#1940481 << the basic headache with these seems to be that to distinguish sane from batshit pipe provider requires to bake a BingoBoingo , populate a rack, and run for yr+
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-05 01:38:54 BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: Criteria 1 was no nato, russia, or china. Asia sucked and charged incredibly for international conenctivity. Africa is Africa. Inside Latam the options with independently owned datacenters were Brasil and Uruguay. Brasil's paperwork culture appeared even more soviet than Uruguay's with additional visa/residency hoops.
asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-05#1940483 << iirc last go around BingoBoingo found that asia has laffably narrow pipe to rest of planet. ( which makes a sort of sense, when's the last time you reached for a www on a vietnamese box ? chinese ? )
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-05 01:47:24 BingoBoingo: hasn't given thought to an alternate universe where Cambodians respond to commercial inquiries in at least a year
BingoBoingo as he waits a few more minutes for the rain to stop before taking a walk anyway feels he has to interject that at least Cambodia's Soviet wears a uniform advertising his Sovietness
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: outta curiosity, didja in fact discover that a dc exists in cambodia ?!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In the second scrubbing of Asia, they advertised datacenters turned out to be NTT, an international thing
asciilifeform: aa, these.
BingoBoingo: Not Equinix, but indistinguishable to my eyes
BingoBoingo: And doesn't change their lack of response to inquiries
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: imho we oughta try e.g. 2nd pipe, before airlift to ambodia. cheaper.
asciilifeform: *cambodia
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: back in '17 when dulap-I crater was still smoking , asciilifeform wanted to try ro . but mp_en_viaje said that it was poor site, and i'm inclined to think that he had good reason to say this.
BingoBoingo: Only one site in Serbia responded to the initial solicitation and failed to follow up
asciilifeform bungled the expedition and still owes mp_en_viaje coin
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ro was to at least host the fiatola-interface end of the affair (rather than machines) at that pt.
BingoBoingo suspects Montevideo has forever spoiled BingoBoingo on the http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-27#1938739 axis
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-27 19:53:18 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938406 << in positive news, this is possibly the best thing for a human. each year with >500 miles on the odometer under age 50 adds 6 months of ~mobile~ life after age 70.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: eh, that's in erry orcistan
asciilifeform: usa is the 1 place where folx go around in motorized fatchairs errywhere
asciilifeform walked coupla 100 km in timis & bucharest , in <week
asciilifeform: wore out a pair of chinesium boots, even.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: re ru -- also looked into. has certain problems (planet's most fascist customs; and chinese-style 'national firewall' among'em) but dunno how relevant in practice, a local with good social engineering acumen could prolly finesse, to some degree. (problem is that we aint got one such)
asciilifeform: at one pt thought that phf was the necessary man.
asciilifeform: ( he made sounds in that direction, but nuffin came of it )
BingoBoingo: If Chile was a bit further north, and either got rid of the Andes or found Atlantic instead of Pacific coast it could have maybe been an option.
BingoBoingo: Colombia signed NATO fandom papers soon after Qntra came back online
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: could spin the globe all day, but imho this remains the fundamental boojum
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-05 02:19:11 asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-05#1940481 << the basic headache with these seems to be that to distinguish sane from batshit pipe provider requires to bake a BingoBoingo , populate a rack, and run for yr+
asciilifeform: imho the smart thing to do is to exhaust erry possible avenue for making working silk purse from the existing sow's ear before spinning globe.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and do get some sleep.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: when dulap is accessible, i'ma ask BingoBoingo to reserve a coupla spare ip for it.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Can you ssh into the shared box?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: possibly, but i'ma also have to sleep shortly.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If get into dulap through the shared box, .239 is available

Random(trilema) | Download daily DB snapshot | Get Source Code