Young Hands
ossasepiaeuloratrilemaspykedtrinquetrilema-hanbotagriculturalsupremacyasciilifeform
2h 58m8h 47m25m25m4h 27m1m3d 7h 3m4h 12m
Ossasepia



trinque: the honest assessment is y'all didn't have a man onboard that wanted to do the business part of the business.
BingoBoingo: trinque: Well that's kind what the loper-os vision of computing is. Compare to MP's I'll buy it but it better work or I'll break it.
BingoBoingo: <trinque> the honest assessment is y'all didn't have a man onboard that wanted to do the business part of the business. << This seems very accurate.
BingoBoingo: "Server for sale, in Uruguay" seems like the Pizarro version of "Baby shoes, never worn"
asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944352 << this is actuallly good q, BingoBoingo why didntcha put it in
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-10 02:01:18 trinque: anyhow that copy I wrote for your wacky larping index page never went up. I don't beg my way into other people's struggling businesses.
BingoBoingo: When the Bitcoin declaration of independence went around gathering signatures in 2014, it was enough to dislike the USG and want to see the USG done. Now, for the failures of marketing outside of the MP household... much of the language about the Republic seems larpish, except when he says it because... He's been a battleship before Bitcoin.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It went in late, which in retrospect is as good as never.
asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944353 << just think, how much couldve pissed, if we went down with 40 riders instead of 7 !
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-10 02:02:18 trinque: at any rate, I don't take pleasure in pissing on failure. it's a weakness I have, so lets leave it at that.
asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944379 << 'gas' is a 'when', not 'if', it aint a 'ohai i'ma coward'. refs to well-known hazards of living in totalitarian shithole.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-10 02:51:40 trinque: speaking of larping, what's this "gassed" thing?
asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944385 << 2yo shoes, lol
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-10 03:01:45 BingoBoingo: "Server for sale, in Uruguay" seems like the Pizarro version of "Baby shoes, never worn"
BingoBoingo to take unwinding unloaded walk and then bed.
asciilifeform to genuine bed.
BingoBoingo: Sleep well
trinque: it's not coward; it's narcissism
trinque: *cowardice
trinque: they don't know who the fuck you are
lobbes: in other news, I have knocked out all items in week 4 mp-wp work plan. Next on list is: the search blog portion, and the sending pingbacks from irc portion
lobbes: turns out, btw, that the whole "detect permalinks structure" thing wasn't even needed... the "guid" field does not represent, as I erroneously thought prior, the absolute path to the post. mp-wp just puts the absolute path in there "by default" as the guid. Saved a lot of time by realizing that
lobbes: mp_en_viaje: I meant to ask earlier, do you want the logged lines on the blog to be linkable ala the standard logger?
lobbes to bed
lobbes: I mean to say above: do you want the links appearing in the log lines to be enclosed in <a href> tags
diana_coman: in early morning crop, only 4 replies: 1 is "please hold on, will enquire"; 2 is "invoicing is a problem because local laws bla" (I've replied to them with simple solution aka their person comes and interfaces); 3 is can't do + we are obnoxious and you do as we say (south koreans too!) 4. is again "help, please hold, will ask boss"
diana_coman: there should be more coming as I've contacted yest ~30 new providers.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944210 << nobody's talking to you as some sort of established pile of wonder, where what you ~have~ is interesting. i'm sure it's not. the idea is whether what you ~do~ can be interesting. if you're leaving for thailand, it's one thing,
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 21:04:31 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944047 << if this were to be done I'd say trinque probably better fit for the role. While I am always hungry for BTC, my orcbux stash took a hit while jettisoning dependopotamus. I'm currently regrouping financially speaking, and while my monthly cashflow should be increasing by ~ $1k in the coming months, I'll still be at 'pauper' level in real terms. Consumption continues to be slashed, howe
mp_en_viaje: but if you're staying put, can you at least master the btc to dubaloo interfacing in your area ? can you be a useful someone, rather than alf-style loud someone ?
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-09 20:55:15 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It may be worth working with lobbes/trinque to see if a BTC/Dubloo circuit in the zone can be established. The one thing the US has is cables everywhere. Argentina hangs off of the "Tannat" cable still further from Fortaleza than Uruguay
mp_en_viaje: if i reside in a location (which i do, multiple) i can answer a number of questions. "where's the best restaurant", i can answer, and if i like you it'll even be "i'll take you there". "are there any hot whores ?" i can answer, and if i like you i can even send you some. "do you know a lawyer ?" i can answer, and so following.
mp_en_viaje: when i returned to timisoara i moved into a place my left-behind man on the ground got for me, when phf showed up in minsk i took him to places my advance team either researched or actually scouted, these are things.
mp_en_viaje: ownership of a place is a thing.
mp_en_viaje: so the question actually was, "any chance you'd extend your presumed ownership of georgia-carolina-tenesee" into the tri-state area such as to cover this inept schmuck, who can't apparently get out of the house, and help him out do basic self-support tasks ?
mp_en_viaje: because this is what you're supposed to fucking do, being our man in amsterdam means you can answer questions about amsterdam.
mp_en_viaje: that's what BingoBoingo_ was to do in uruguay, and did as-best-he-could which didn't get accepted as acceptable, let alone very well, this is what mocky went to do in qatar -- figure out if it's worth doing at all, this is what life is.
mp_en_viaje: and that's the expectation, whoever;s resident answers questions. "i need a car" here you go. "seems this deal's going south" "i know this lawyer", "we want to X" "you'll have to p q and r, ima send guy over to talk to you about p, no problem, q you do thus and following, r is iffy, becayse s and t considerations, ima see what can be done".
mp_en_viaje: that's the format, and that's even the fucking reason of existing. if this isn't what you do, in what sense are you even a person, what the fuck, you're somebody's maid, ploughssharer, tavern wench, whatever it is you think you appear or attempt to say you're at no risk of being taken for a gentleman.
mp_en_viaje: in any case, if you want to sell one or ten or a hundred bitcoin in budapest i can tell you where ; or in kiev, or in munich, or in i dunno if i make myself clear here, but this vegetative state where you can do nothing, you know no one etcetera is not fit for independent living. if you're going to live like that you must live in the household of another, as a servant.
mp_en_viaje: to live independently you must master your environment sufficiently so as to warrant it.
mp_en_viaje: the very fucking point of structure speaks directly here. to be in the republic ~you must not be in pantsuit~. living the life of the atomized powerless pantsuit ~necessarily~ means you can't be in the republic.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 14:30:18 mp_en_viaje: there exist good cheeses now because (mostly french) many anon farmers produced the structure to protect them.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944255 << dude, stfu, srsly.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 21:41:08 asciilifeform: where didja buy them parts, BingoBoingo , at airport ??
mp_en_viaje: he;s gonna fill up the channel with idiotic old woman wailing now, on top of ten thousand lines of being hysterically useless.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944264 << every heuristic is potentially useful while gripped firmly in your hand, and damaging if it takes over the head.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 21:50:00 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Power for dollar, you do seem to have a knack for buying machines. As I'm digesting the day's conversation the objection from mp seems to be the mindset which produces this frugality is handicapping when extended to other areas.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944283 << if you continue in this vein of stupid, stroking your hurt ego by knocking down straw dollies you imagined, ima simply devoice you.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 22:05:05 asciilifeform: an' it's sold by the pound. interchangeable, predictable, exactly like 'serious biz' folx luvv so Much.
mp_en_viaje: you're not fucking useful. learn to be useful or get the fuck lost, it can't be any plainer than that.
mp_en_viaje: your self-permitted "oh, i can't do x, but that's ok" went as far as it did, ~tolerated~, not accepted.
mp_en_viaje: it'll never be accepted, because stupid is stupid, and "i can't do x" is never anything but stupid.
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo_, is in on the carpet over not managing to magic over workable orcs in the south american outback over a coupla years ? he got there he didn't even speak the fucking language.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile you've been sitting on your dumb ass for fucking decades, telling me you can't handle half a coin like you're fucking proud of it ?
mp_en_viaje: i'd rather deal with amazon than with red stapler idiot bullshit each day of the week, who the fuck do you think gives a shit about your elaborate list of can't do's ?!
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944292 << these are fucking unrelated.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 22:09:37 asciilifeform: also, BingoBoingo , even if he had asked for the rack, we cannot teleport the boxen, it wouldnot satisfy the 'omfg want uy1 NAO!!' req.
mp_en_viaje: you make a big noise, oh, "i like this, oh i do that", people end up imagining inside the noisecloud there's some substance.
mp_en_viaje: yes, on the basis of the pompous bullshit you keep spitting into the logs i had formed the impression that you're sitting on a large stash of assorted hardware, which is a major factor of your manifest refusal to leave the washington swamp.
mp_en_viaje: and yes i had thought that offering you the opportunity to at least rack some of that, thereby liquidating it without losing ownership, would be exactly the pill to resolve the cash flow woes of an otherwise useful and intelligent gent.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-08 06:39:33 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-07#1942062 << the uy nonsense caught you just right huh!
mp_en_viaje: because that was the structure of THAT conversation, actually, irrespective what the shit between your ears may have misrepresented it as : i noted you got your fingers caught, and then i pointed out WHY you got your fingers caught, and then took the first opportunity to offer some slack to extract yourself.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-08 12:12:42 asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: not disputing the general principle. but finding it difficult to see how would have made a diff re the latech thing.
mp_en_viaje: which you promptly took and hung self with, which is fucking fine.
mp_en_viaje: not even half year ago you were here making a big noise about your x-ray machine and how to adapt microscopes and shoot nonpareils out of your asshole.
mp_en_viaje: not even a week ago you were grumbling about how you want whatever opterons "you sealed" back, as if you're some kind of fucking actor, maybe you own 10% of the remaining stock of opterons, who the fuck knows.
mp_en_viaje: then it turns out you've been talking out of your ass.
mp_en_viaje: i can't even be arsed to distinguish whether it's the case that some weirdo is in fact SO weird as to actually have an xray machine, microscopes etcetera but 0 boxes, or rather the case some fifteen yo is just talking along with the crowd, a sort of [][zelig], becoming overweight when talking to overweight people about their obexsity and growing a beard when hanging out with rabbis.
mp_en_viaje: cuz that's what i fucking needed, you know, not -- god forbid -- a working isp, oh no, not that. i wanted some fucking kitchen xray shots of some long dead gramophone. THAT is what was needed, it'll make the apotropaion of alf, when the darkness comes we just show it that and it walks away.
mp_en_viaje: fucking idiot.
mp_en_viaje: you're poor because you're stupid. and you'll stay poor for as long as you stay stupid. that's the whole fucking story.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944321 << yes, sure, in some complexly contorted re-interpretation it could be said that i don't want it because someone inept enough to have a problem with the bitcoin is probably just as inept in other places and will do something stupid enough to be a danger of life and limb.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 22:23:12 asciilifeform: which i suspect is at least part of the reason mp didnt want it.
mp_en_viaje: similarily, if i was hiring and this engineer dude showed up, passed the quals, and then explained that he must have limo service from company, because he can't drive and is affraid of trams and the bus driver is mean to him, i'd hve similarly said no thanks. because, again, some dude too inept to have mastered transportation is not qualified to play the engineer, irrespective of what the paperwork girlies say.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944326 << happy bday then
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 22:24:30 lobbes: In unrelated news, I turned 32 today (yesterday?). Death clock keeps ticking.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944350 << actually that was the whole idea. the entire concept of a socialist economy is that market communication is spurious because somehow everyone inherits the perfect knowledge of the planners.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 22:59:18 trinque: I don't know if the soviets invented some kind of circumcision that removes the "and then you persuade people to give you their money for the thing you have"
mp_en_viaje: this is ~precisely~ the economic proposition of classical socialism, that by saving all the money "wasted" on marketing, packaging, advertising etcetera, it can pass those savings on to the customer, ~and they'll amount to something meaningful~.
mp_en_viaje: thus they indeed built a drab gray world, with no instagram sluts vying for a chance at being the next "avon ambassador", no twerking girlies tryna "make it in dis biz" of "rap" which consists of dudes vying for a chance of being the nike ideal salesman, whose paper icon is in every nike shop so the actual shoe salesman can hide after this nike jesus and sell from behind the mask
mp_en_viaje: and for that matter no cosmetics -- if girl at home ain't tryna immitate the girl selling news on tv, what need for rouge ?
mp_en_viaje: and similarily military/penitentiary underwear universally, and the yearning for something, ANYTHING else that goes with it.
mp_en_viaje: and then "inexplicably" they just fucking ended. because, apparently, meaning is not independent of the means to meaning, and if you don't manage to produce meaning you don't manage to produce anything.
mp_en_viaje: notwithstanding objectively the milk was better, and the only chocolare available better than the mode, and the mean, let alone average chocolate available in "democracy", and in general yes, an "objective dollar" / pound of silver DID, indisputably, buy more in socialism than "capitalism".
mp_en_viaje: except, of course, nobody fucking wanted it. but other than that -- yes.
mp_en_viaje: precisely and exactly and the problem is, most people don't understand anything therefore the rake's still there to step on. over, and over, and over again.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944352 << well, in socialism you universally end up having to, because there's going to be a pompous whiny idiot there who's spent all the time fucking everything up.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 23:02:01 trinque: anyhow that copy I wrote for your wacky larping index page never went up. I don't beg my way into other people's struggling businesses.
mp_en_viaje: through the holy trifecta of http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1943242 ; and who wants to be friends ; and who wants you to certify his self-given immunities, oh he doesn't suck cock and that's ok. "how the fuck could it be okay, the cock's right there. suck it, bitch" "oh, noes..."
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 09:19:28 mp_en_viaje: stop confusing cause and effect, stop looking up the wrong name server roots, stop minimaxing randomly about, it's the stuff of insanity.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944347 << dude, the problem's not your doing of the things you do. the problem's your not doing of the things you do not do.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 22:42:09 asciilifeform: when uy1 was suspected of overheat, had its thermometer displayed also where could see it, even when eating.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944353 << nobody fucking does, but what the fuck can you do, if nobody says anything the chitlins will die stupid.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 23:03:00 trinque: at any rate, I don't take pleasure in pissing on failure. it's a weakness I have, so lets leave it at that.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944374 << sweet.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 23:48:44 BingoBoingo: has pulled the trigger on a heathenbox. Hopefully will get to setting it up soon.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944377 << best of luck, and don't forget to describe it in detail! that's what the blog is for after all.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 23:49:24 BingoBoingo: and not limit the search to Vienna, Warsaw, and Anatolia simply because more civilization survives there than apparently anywhere else.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944379 << the counterwright for his mechanism of nonsense. in practice it works as a scummy attachment strategy, in that it readily passes filters as "playful talk", the man's making a joke, see, it's double-entendre, like a clever use of language, oh, exaggeration, we get it.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 23:52:22 trinque: speaking of larping, what's this "gassed" thing?
mp_en_viaje: then after it passed it becomes this perpetual self-reference basis, and who knows, maybe everyone's dumb enough to actually start taking it seriously seeing how it got repeated over and over again after having not been laughed out of court outright.
mp_en_viaje: in this alt-world he's a moron-hero who can't as much as leave the house but is besieged by armed hordes nevertheless. so you can't say that he's wasting his time watching a termometer instead of eating, because there's snipers on every roof! and you can't laugh at him fucking with xra
ossabot: Logged on 2016-12-01 15:37:35 mircea_popescu: A student told his friend, "My teacher has amazing powers. He moves a pen in the air and characters appear on a piece of paper held on the other side of the river. What does your master do?" His friend replied "My great master follows Zen. When he is hungry, he eats and when he is tired he sleeps."
mp_en_viaje: ys of his toe jam instead of getting his business of the ground, because, you see, THEY GAS PEOPLE!!!
mp_en_viaje: "they" do.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-09#1944381 << flawless is the word.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-09 23:59:43 trinque: BingoBoingo: man I hardly think perfect's the word here. it literally means complete!
mp_en_viaje: whioch isn't even universally a bad approach, most tools are to be made to the flawless standard. which is why when he's in there gunsmithing his gun, he turns out very good work.
mp_en_viaje: the problem is that most of life consists of dealing with born, not made systems and structures. selected not designed. and in dealing with that, he is TERRIBLE. he's not even at the level of a 3yo, which'd be complete martian naivite. he's in fact numerously and profoundly counter-trained, he does things that specifically ensure failure.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:52:49 mp_en_viaje: it's not there because it was designed ; it's there because it was selected, which is a different thing. selection produces things that work, definitionally, that's what it is. not well or correctly or properly but AT ALL.
mp_en_viaje: perhaps because failing early is how he managed to get away from it and move back to the other lobe as a child, or for any other reason.
mp_en_viaje: the fundamental problem is that polishing a lens until it's flawless is hard but attainable ; but polishing a fishery until the water's perfectly flat is NOT attainable.
mp_en_viaje: people fish with the water not being flat, notwithstanding bumpy lens surface is hardly worth using.
diana_coman: o.O meanwhile london-based director "looked up who I am" and thinks it might be possible
diana_coman: and I was just finishing the bashing-email, now need to tweak a bit; because he still has funny ideas.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944385 << were worn, in all fairness, but certainly see the flavour.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-10 00:02:27 BingoBoingo: "Server for sale, in Uruguay" seems like the Pizarro version of "Baby shoes, never worn"
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, report on blog later too i imagine ?
mp_en_viaje: excellent inaugural of new host, "my shit got fucked here's what i did about it", come to thinl of it.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: I'm amassing here a long list of stuff to report, myeah
diana_coman: but let's see if this works out because so far he's still deluded on some aspects
mp_en_viaje: and who isn't.
diana_coman: and I think he took me for some swiss coman shmidt diana academic, lol
mp_en_viaje: i discover aspects i was deluded on pretty much weekly.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944390 << nope, exactly opposite.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-10 00:09:24 asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944353 << just think, how much couldve pissed, if we went down with 40 riders instead of 7 !
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-10 02:02:18 trinque: at any rate, I don't take pleasure in pissing on failure. it's a weakness I have, so lets leave it at that.
diana_coman: there are some guys from the netherlands too who were very humbly apologizing that they can't do it; at least not obnoxious like south koreans I suppose; but anyway, this is better on a blog for sure.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944404 << whichever way is the easier.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-10 01:41:28 lobbes: mp_en_viaje: I meant to ask earlier, do you want the logged lines on the blog to be linkable ala the standard logger?
mp_en_viaje: i don't need it, seeing how selection mechanism, but i certainly won't make you rip it out. besides, perhaps more convenient for peeps used to it.
mp_en_viaje: this logging in the car business kicks ass.
diana_coman: apparently it occasionally kicks the can too, lolz.
mp_en_viaje: a derp it died
mp_en_viaje: well, it's easy enough to bounce back in, but yes, spessart forest kicks butt as a forest, but not the greatest for signl
diana_coman: well, I'm still trying here to get on top of the logs but between emails/isps/ixps lists & all that, it's not going that fast and I'm not even in the forest.
mp_en_viaje: well, it's easy enough to bounce back in, but yes, spessart forest kicks butt as a forest, but not the greatest for signl
mp_en_viaje: aand multi-km worth of trucks traffic jam, ftw. i betcha someone crashed.
mp_en_viaje: in any case, it turns out radio links don't work so well throyugh major traffic jams .meanwhile satlinks don't work so great in thick cloud cover such as can be had in autumnal fulda gap.
diana_coman: apparently the london guy is asking for a rider too, pretty much.
mp_en_viaje: who knows how the fuck do go about anything ;/
diana_coman: how was it? "flawless" - that thing that never works that well irl
mp_en_viaje: uh huh!
mp_en_viaje: in fairness, zee germans are a pleasure to be stuck in a stau with, such as it is. literally 1k semis orderly to the side of the road so light traffic can make it through, these folk are fuckien dsciplined.
mp_en_viaje: but also, LOTS of fucking crashing on the autobahn, this'd be the 3 major in a piddly 500 mile stretch we did so far. i'd guess half a dozen dead total, too.
mp_en_viaje: i mean wtf, it's a little rich,
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944406 << ah, i thought you meant the clickable timestamp. uh, tbh the answer stays the same : whichever works easiest.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-10 01:46:59 lobbes: I mean to say above: do you want the links appearing in the log lines to be enclosed in <a href> tags
diana_coman: and after all the time-wasting, london-guy fails; at least it's consistent with expectations.
diana_coman: they claim they accept payment via bitcoin to direct address though so if anyone wants their details, let me know; their datacentre is in London but I won't have anything further to do with them.
diana_coman: !!key crowncloud
deedbot: Not registered.
diana_coman: !!key Metronix
deedbot: Not registered.
asciilifeform: !Qlater tell mp_en_viaje if you think asciilifeform is liar, then per the mp's operating instruction you have wrong sign bit on asciilifeform's rating. i'ma take that -9 nao.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-10 08:29:13 mp_en_viaje: i can't even be arsed to distinguish whether it's the case that some weirdo is in fact SO weird as to actually have an xray machine, microscopes etcetera but 0 boxes, or rather the case some fifteen yo is just talking along with the crowd, a sort of [][zelig], becoming overweight when talking to overweight people about their obexsity and growing a beard when hanging out with rabbis.
asciilifeform: this goes for errybody else. whythefuq are you keeping a http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944432 around.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-10 08:11:09 mp_en_viaje: you're not fucking useful. learn to be useful or get the fuck lost, it can't be any plainer than that.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: mind answering in #o for a bit; there's an indonesian isp guy that might do some work.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'ma answer, 1s
asciilifeform: diana_coman et al : all further q's for asciilifeform , in castles plox. here i'ma answer if invoked by mp and not otherwise.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: as you wish.
diana_coman: !!key Metronix
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/85DCAC7D458D11E6E30C9468FD285473CC93194C.asc
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: oh, hi
diana_coman: I got an australian-with-dc-partner-in-US to register with deedbot
mp_en_viaje waves
lobbesbot: mp_en_viaje: Sent 58 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> if you think [http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944450] [asciilifeform is liar] , then per the [http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/] [mp's operating instruction] you have wrong sign bit on asciilifeform's rating. i'ma take that -9 nao.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-10 08:29:13 mp_en_viaje: i can't even be arsed to distinguish whether it's the case that some weirdo is in fact SO weird as to actually have an xray machine, microscopes etcetera but 0 boxes, or rather the case some fifteen yo is just talking along with the crowd, a sort of [][zelig], becoming overweight when talking to overweight people about their obexsity and growing a beard when hanging out with rabbis.
diana_coman: he has intel machines only but at least can invoice via deedbot apparently
diana_coman: so tbh I think I'll get one to get my blog online already
diana_coman: wtf else can I do
mp_en_viaje: nice. here ?
diana_coman: lemme bring him over
mp_en_viaje cuts through thick wall of latertold drama to emerge on to business.
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo_, did you get a thing going for shared clone yet ? or should i just get this guy to provide a box ?
diana_coman: !!up crowncloud_
deedbot: crowncloud_ voiced for 30 minutes.
mp_en_viaje: hi crowncloud_
crowncloud_: hey
diana_coman hasn't yet got around to rate crowncloud_ ; will do
mp_en_viaje: ok, so our uruguay dc just imploded, and there's some stuff to relocate asap seeing how whatever, people's blogs are offline
diana_coman: crowncloud_: answered my email by coming and registering with deedbot ; he's from crowncloud.net
mp_en_viaje: what do you recommend for basicaly a buncha personal sites / blogs and so on ?
mp_en_viaje: in terms of dedicated machines
crowncloud_: what was the configuration of the previous server?
mp_en_viaje: dang. good q, lessee if i can fish it out
mp_en_viaje: 1s
crowncloud_: sure
mp_en_viaje: crowncloud_, https://archive.is/mllUr#selection-51.0-93.102 << found it
diana_coman: !!rate crowncloud_ 2 Australian ISP with US dc-partner; can invoice via deedbot.
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=QTbE
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: You can have him go ahead. I pulled the trigger on the purchase, but haven't done setup yet. It's one of those fast delivery CentOS things, hard to tell if actual physical box or virtualized cheat box. It's an "any" box. If this service has a guy to show up, its a better option
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, aite. ill cover w/e you paid, lump it with the drive incinerations and w/e else such odds and ends.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I'll just throw a BTC node on it and maybe keep it if it doesn't suck.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in trips down memory lane, http://archive.is/S2GEb
crowncloud_: This site can’t be reached / archive.is refused to connect.
diana_coman: !!rate Metronix 2 Indonesian ISP with 10 years close connection to local ISP; can invoice via deedbot; currently out of capacity for colo.
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=K9nh
mp_en_viaje: crowncloud_, that's weird. ok, lemme see here
mp_en_viaje: UY1: » 128 GB ECC RAM » 2x 16-core AMD Opteron 6376 (2.3 GHz) (32 Cores) » Reserved Space, Just for you on a 1.7 TB RAID 10 Array composed of Samsung Solid State Drives » Apache, MySQL, PHP 5.6 » Located in safe and politically stable Montevideo, Uruguay outside of NATO or other belligerent states
mp_en_viaje: obviously the last point is a bridge too far for england, but the rest :D
crowncloud_: Hmm, let me check what can come close to that config
crowncloud_: any idea how much RAM was used of that 128G ?
mp_en_viaje: fwiw it was iirc <10% used anyway, so not the end of the world.
mp_en_viaje: luxurious old boys club sorta setup, wat can i say.
mp_en_viaje: speaking of which, man this penthouse apt is nice. best view of frankfurt, i had forgotten how pleasant these superlative views from on top of the city are.
mp_en_viaje: makes one feel pretty good just like that.
BingoBoingo: Most of the boxe's power ended up simply being a sort of "fleet in being" reserve.
mp_en_viaje: aha.
mp_en_viaje: i wonder why archive doesn't load for him, incidentally. it loads for you hmmm wtf happened to diana coman
mp_en_viaje: o there she is. Guest23498 ^
BingoBoingo: Maybe Centurylink cut off England now?
mp_en_viaje: nah, item's in russia.
diana_coman: !!v A1B52FE1392A081098D1D1863E47DC17C27FA62EB883E12045F84165C3625703
deedbot: diana_coman rated crowncloud_ 2 << Australian ISP with US dc-partner; can invoice via deedbot.
diana_coman: !!v 8C614463FB2BF748EA00DA9E0ACBB7D18CF0C6DC7CC551D783379E4DA0964112
deedbot: diana_coman rated Metronix 2 << Indonesian ISP with 10 years close connection to local ISP; can invoice via deedbot; currently out of capacity for colo.
diana_coman: done; and drat re lost conn.
diana_coman: was there anyone close to either LA or Atlanta? apparently that's where crowncloud_ has datacenter space for colo.
mp_en_viaje: so i log into trilema after a coupla days of walking through forests etc, and i find... 58 comments in queue. so im like wtf, fucking hell, the spam thing finally croaked.
mp_en_viaje: as it turns out, no, just spyked sent a buncha trackbacks
diana_coman: ahahaha
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, i thought he's from london
diana_coman: trackbacks while walking through the forest
mp_en_viaje: but that don't mean my eyes will soon be turning red...
mp_en_viaje: trackbacks are falling on my head...
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: no; the london guy failed as per http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944531
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-10 09:41:58 diana_coman: and after all the time-wasting, london-guy fails; at least it's consistent with expectations.
mp_en_viaje: a ok. seems i got confuseled.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: well, in the end the london guy wasted my morning; after which I have 2 people actually showing up; what can I say.
diana_coman: speaking of which: crowncloud_ I'll take that intel in atlanta whatevers, I need my blog up; put centos 6 on it and invoice me via deedbot.
diana_coman: this is how ossasepia is moving to the US, pfft.
mp_en_viaje: heh
crowncloud_: sec sorry had got disconnected off znc
mp_en_viaje: crowncloud_, http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944584 << logs
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-10 14:34:11 mp_en_viaje: UY1: » 128 GB ECC RAM » 2x 16-core AMD Opteron 6376 (2.3 GHz) (32 Cores) » Reserved Space, Just for you on a 1.7 TB RAID 10 Array composed of Samsung Solid State Drives » Apache, MySQL, PHP 5.6 » Located in safe and politically stable Montevideo, Uruguay outside of NATO or other belligerent states
diana_coman: crowncloud_: the chan is logged at http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema if you missed anything
diana_coman: or that, lol.
mp_en_viaje: lol
crowncloud_: just checking into invoicing via deedbot -- we usually handle support/invoicing etc all via our client area (helps keep track of invoices/updates the customer on any network maintanence etc)
diana_coman: crowncloud_: via deedbot please.
mp_en_viaje: !!up crowncloud_
deedbot: crowncloud_ voiced for 30 minutes.
crowncloud_: let me see -- i mean, for support etc as well, it would be very useful if via the client area, because we have different staff on rotating shifts, so someone or the other would be available to help you out rather than waiting for me to come online :P
diana_coman: crowncloud_: they can come online too, no? have them reg a key each and leave a znc on, what
crowncloud_: hmm issue is, not all staff have access to the datacenter stuff (for security reasons) so there's a internal escilation for such tasks via support tickets
diana_coman: so they can escalate it internally in any way; the point is: one contact here and then that contact can escalate and do whatever in your system
mp_en_viaje: it's not really gonna work to try and get the republic on website.
diana_coman: that is not going to work at all.
crowncloud_: hmm
BingoBoingo: crowncloud_: In my experience serving these clients they practicly support themselves most of the time. Very tech literate. The few things they ask however, they need.
crowncloud_: Yup -- just trying to see how to make it best possible, because I don't want to leave anyone hanging for support and at the same time, for billing as well. I don't usually want staff to interact with customers as it leads to a very "mixed" of experience
BingoBoingo: crowncloud_: I understand that. Last datacenter had much of their staff disappear sometime after 8 September this year.
crowncloud_: oh
crowncloud_: hmm would support/invoicing etc work via EMail ?
crowncloud_: the same ID to/from which you sent us an email earlier today ?
BingoBoingo: And by "much of their staff" I mean my point man with a good head.
mp_en_viaje: what do you have against irc anyway
crowncloud_: nothing against IRC
diana_coman: crowncloud_: that was my email, lol; it won't really work for everyone anyway; and really, what's against irc? it's ok, we don't bite the unexperienced.
diana_coman: crowncloud_: and I get what you say re mixed, not like I didn't talk to...ahem, quite a lot of isp employees those days.
diana_coman: crowncloud_: basically establish a presence on irc too, they'll probably even train up while at it, if anything.
crowncloud_: na nothing against IRC really, its just that the panel handles it all for us, bills are auto-generated on the due date, support alerts go to all members so everyone on-shift is alerted of whatever issue etc so they can all provide you updates as we get them from the datacenter side
mp_en_viaje: so basically he needs an irc bridge for his backend
diana_coman: ahahaha; quite
mp_en_viaje: you know ?
diana_coman: ikr.
mp_en_viaje: not like pizarro wrote itself one, for all the aferations of intensive care etc.
mp_en_viaje: the pizarro irc isp suite'd have been quite useful right now, "here, use this"
diana_coman: crowncloud_: as mp_en_viaje says, in time you could bridge this over with custom software too but for the moment just a person to do the bridging (or 2-3 on shifts, whatever); you know what'd work
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: now you released the trackbacks and feedbot is foaming with them, lolz
mp_en_viaje: lol siz
mp_en_viaje: soz*
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: and yes, irc isp suite would have been great; I'm quite sure it would have made my search way more fruitful too really.
mp_en_viaje: i wonder why it never occured.
crowncloud_: let me see, I'll have a chat with my boss and see how it goes, I'll drop a reply to the email ? or ?
mp_en_viaje: here.
crowncloud_: sure
mp_en_viaje: you can voice yourself now,
crowncloud_: aha ty :)
mp_en_viaje: just say !!up to deedbot in pm and then !!v the otp it gives you
mp_en_viaje: since diana_coman rated you
mp_en_viaje: hanbot_abroad nicoleci https://archive.org/details/RoBalaicaGRimm/page/n5 << the sisters marrying bear story.
BingoBoingo: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944498 << Servers worn yes. Was counting on "in Uruguay" to convey the sadness.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-10 07:03:11 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944385 << were worn, in all fairness, but certainly see the flavour.
asciilifeform: !!deed http://www.loper-os.org/pub/dulap_construction_kit.txt
deedbot: accepted: 1
asciilifeform: ^ on request of diana_coman .
BingoBoingo: ATTN ALL: Latecho has silently disabled my access to the datacenter. All that remains in the rack per my last survey are 1. Switch for the incoming connection 2. less sophisticated switch serving RK plant 3. RK plant (minus drives) 4. Rails 5. A small mountain of network and power cables 6. Many Racknuts, mostly unsused 7. One platic tote box, empty
mp_en_viaje: ahahaah they actually stoled it ? good thing you got the shit out
BingoBoingo: Seriously. Glad I didn't warn then before wheeling out the last 1Us. Still between then and this afternoon's visit to SWEEP AND CLEAN while packing... I was still able to get in last night. WTF sort of delay is that.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, they've captured 1. weird switch any prospective or current customers are going to "brand fag" about being offered 2. Commodity switch already plentiful on local market 3. some single board computers 4. rails, cables, and other shit it would have been nice for them to have Jan/Feb 2018!!!
BingoBoingo: Anyways, after taking care of some other things Imma draft a "Let's get this liability of a contract off both of our books and cleanly and inexpensively as possible" letter. Will not fire off without getting some reads here of the draft.
mp_en_viaje: nah, just complain your key don't work.
mp_en_viaje: play dumb, what do you care.
BingoBoingo: Aite. Will play dumb and let them accumulate breaches.
BingoBoingo: Also visited the commercial shippers today. Going to have to get my own boxes and will probably be headed to the networking hardware store tomorrow to see what they got.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: Aite, dumb played.
BingoBoingo: The sutures holding my scrotum to this horse feel substantially less tight than they did even this morning.
mp_en_viaje: cool deal
BingoBoingo: Anyways, I'm pretty sure even though I wheeled out servers with a hand truck earlier, doing so yesterday while someone was paying attention... was probably a shock. Especially in light of the pseudo-classism thing that goes in in this part of the world.
BingoBoingo: "Colocates servers, why wouldn't he hire a 'fletes' to do the manual labor?"
BingoBoingo: Anyways, despite the signs of unwellness, it would still be surprising if I don't have access because they don't have access either.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944537 << i don't think you're a liar. i think you're a https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QO6WLGB4RBU/maxresdefault.jpg ; and as your misfortune would have it very few interesting or important things in this world can be done single handedly.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-10 10:26:06 asciilifeform: !Qlater tell mp_en_viaje if you think asciilifeform is liar, then per the mp's operating instruction you have wrong sign bit on asciilifeform's rating. i'ma take that -9 nao.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-10 08:29:13 mp_en_viaje: i can't even be arsed to distinguish whether it's the case that some weirdo is in fact SO weird as to actually have an xray machine, microscopes etcetera but 0 boxes, or rather the case some fifteen yo is just talking along with the crowd, a sort of [][zelig], becoming overweight when talking to overweight people about their obexsity and growing a beard when hanging out with rabbis.
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, would also be lulzy.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: Not outside the realm of possibility, but yes. Would be surprising. Then again there was no one in the glass humans box yesterday at an hour 1. Well after local lunch hour and a half concludes 2. Well before local workday concludes. Fellow who walked me out had to come from one of the two other datacenters (the other two are under different S.A. corp for Freezone purposes, maybe more solvent?)
mp_en_viaje: wait, walked you out ? i thought the keycard thingee just quit
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: Yesterday I had to use the service enterance because wheels.
BingoBoingo: Keycard did just quit
mp_en_viaje: oh oh
mp_en_viaje: and you figure that gave it away ?
BingoBoingo: But never worked for the honest wheels door
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I would have thought first batch of wheeling would have, but apparently neither receptionist cared that day nor does anyone appear to mid the security cameras at the enterance.
BingoBoingo: But during the conversation never said anything definitive as to my future operations rather than my clients'operations, but did emphasize the difficulty of continuing as is. This may have baited the keycard.
BingoBoingo: And yet I was in the rack last night many hours after the wheeling out.
BingoBoingo: But the lack of anyone in the humans box seems to be a strong "less than skeleton/prize crew at the helm" situation
BingoBoingo: Empty humans box during business hours has been the exception in the past. Consistently seeing it when never seeing it before...
BingoBoingo: not at this frequency
mp_en_viaje: a well
BingoBoingo: Anyways. Having everything but the one switch powered down when the network doesn't work seems like the only sane response to walking into the Monday Air conditioner disaster.
BingoBoingo: Also not a necessary leaving tell when people other than HVAC folk were seen trying to fix HVAC crisis. It's a natural equipment preservation move.
BingoBoingo: "Yes, despite paying for powered rack... Running machines that may become surprise uncooled when they don't even network access is a great risk/reward calculation.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-famous-schlob-and-other-stories/ << Trilema -- The Famous Schlob, and other stories.
mp_en_viaje: heh
billymg: hey all
billymg: BingoBoingo: i took a snapshot of my blog db when piz briefly came back after the unexpected outage, and i have local copies of my patches (i see diana_coman mirrored the mp-wp patches, but i also have the mp-wp-tests patches)
billymg: it would still be nice to get a copy of some of the directories on my old rk if i'm not too late
BingoBoingo: billymg: Aite, I have your Rockchip drive. GPG me what you want
billymg: sure, one sec
BingoBoingo going over local contract law again. Tristan Narvaja produced some gems. Art. 1273. La violencia moral no afectará la validez del contrato, sino cuando por la condición de la persona, su carácter, hábitos y sexo, pueda juzgarse que ha debido naturalmente hacerle una fuerte impresión. Tampoco afectará la validez de los contratos el mero temor reverencial.
lobbes: pretty lulzy re: keycard BingoBoingo. Good thing you grabbed irons indeed
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944415 << I see what you mean, and this makes sense. In that case, I must confess I have not spent my time here in carolinastan taking ownership of the place. Certainly have not made and BTC/fiat interface contacts, which I do see now as foolish.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-10 07:48:20 mp_en_viaje: ownership of a place is a thing.
lobbes: I fell into ill thinking in which I reasoned that since I don't want to live here ~forever~ and that I don't really like the place that I am content with being a hermit for the time being.
lobbes: But this is faulty reasoning; e.g. mp_en_viaje sure as fuck didn't like Argentina yet knew that place inside and out (which is how he even came to the conclusion that it sucked so hard in the first place)
billymg: BingoBoingo: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=WBGH
billymg: BingoBoingo: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=XjKL < and the key
billymg: lobbes: yeah, this resonated with me http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-08#1941999
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-08 00:14:45 mp_en_viaje: "not talking to many people you don't know ~= suicide" might've been more productive a lesson.
billymg: i've been so lost in corporate world these past few years it's all i know, and vow not to make the same mistake once i jump the fence
BingoBoingo: billymg: Aite. I'll try to have these tarballed GPG'd and uploaded within the next 24 hours. Will let you know if I have any issues.
lobbes: billymg, right? Ditto, though I ought to start talking to more people regardless of where I am. Sure it is 'easier' to just not talk to people, but the easy things are easy for a reason
lobbes: in other news, my second server is finally provisioned. I'm off to resurrect auctionbot and blog!
billymg: lobbes: i don't know if this is any defense but i find when try to talk to people here i'm met with http://63.80.184.72/blog/influence.html
billymg: anything i _want_ to talk about, they absolutely _do not_ want to talk about
billymg: it's very discouraging
billymg: BingoBoingo: ty, and no rush
billymg: i'm gonna be out all next week
lobbes: billymg: oya, I encounter that as well, which is what leads to my hermit behavior I find ("meh, I don't even enjoy hanging with that guy; would rather just be alone"). But part of networking I suppose is just dealing with it and making the effort. Not like BingoBoingo had to be best buds with his bicycle guy contact, either
billymg: yeah, for sure
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944720 << the correct reasoning is to observe that since you don't intend to stay, therefore mistakes are cheap.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-10 20:43:35 lobbes: I fell into ill thinking in which I reasoned that since I don't want to live here ~forever~ and that I don't really like the place that I am content with being a hermit for the time being.
lobbes: this is a golden point I hadn't considered
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944721 << this is so.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-10 20:43:42 lobbes: But this is faulty reasoning; e.g. mp_en_viaje sure as fuck didn't like Argentina yet knew that place inside and out (which is how he even came to the conclusion that it sucked so hard in the first place)
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944716 << o ya, the attempt of the roman law folk to make sense out of the world, their structure of terms of art etc, lulzy goldmine
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-10 20:33:35 BingoBoingo: going over local contract law again. Tristan Narvaja produced some gems. Art. 1273. La violencia moral no afectará la validez del contrato, sino cuando por la condición de la persona, su carácter, hábitos y sexo, pueda juzgarse que ha debido naturalmente hacerle una fuerte impresión. Tampoco afectará la validez de los contratos el mero temor reverencial.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944732 << it's why the ~many~ is in there.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-10 20:52:13 billymg: it's very discouraging
billymg: as in, gotta talk to 1000 to find the one human?
mp_en_viaje: yeah, say hi to 1000 to find 100 to ask how their day;s been to find 10 to ask a 2ns question to to find one...
mp_en_viaje: you ever read http://trilema.com/2019/get-lost-dumbo/ ?
billymg: makes sense
billymg: yeah, pretty sure at some point i did
billymg re-reads
mp_en_viaje: mkay, how discouraging is it ?
mp_en_viaje: why the fuck would it be discouraging, it's not like i went in caring about the retards
mp_en_viaje: i went in trying to figure out if i care or not.
billymg: ah yeah, i remember this one now, lots of good lulz in there
billymg: i see what you're saying, and it's not fear of rejection or anything like that, it's sadness. like when i realize that even my own family/close friends will never get it
billymg: and not just never get it, but never even want to
mp_en_viaje: why should they ?
billymg: because isn't that the point? try to figure out how the world works and get it to work for you
mp_en_viaje: ok, for you. but why should ~they~ ?
billymg: well, because some of them actually seem very intelligent, and seem like they'd be pretty good at it, if they cared
billymg: for the majority, sure, play with iphone all day
mp_en_viaje: so why don't they care then ?
billymg: comfort, i think they know what it means to care, and it means a loss of comfort
mp_en_viaje: well so why should you want intelligent people to be uncomfortable.
billymg: selfish reasons i suppose. that they might enlist and help the republic shape the world into what it should be
mp_en_viaje: moreover, why should you be discouraged at intelligent peoples' comfort.
billymg: it's not their comfort that's discouraging, it's their ranking of it above all else
mp_en_viaje: well, do you ?
billymg: rank comfort above all else for myself, personally
billymg: ?
mp_en_viaje: yeah
billymg: perhaps higher than i should, but it's never been at the top
mp_en_viaje: seems to me a lot like being discouraged in a fine pint of dark stout that some people drink budweiser. i never heard of this.
mp_en_viaje: "oh, but this is bitter" yeah "we like sweet beer ourselves" ok so have some.
billymg: aha
billymg: if that's their preference, don't waste the energy or the thought on it
billymg: find those whose preferences align with yours, more productive
billymg: or don't, continue to enjoy your dark stout regardless
mp_en_viaje: i mean, you know, it's one thing to say "dude, you're wasting your mouth with that swill, try some beer". but if they don't like it, why can't they just carry on with whatever, what diff could it possibly make.
billymg: true
mp_en_viaje: much easier to seek than to fix. digging through millions may seem discouraging, on the surfce, because it takes months.
mp_en_viaje: but fixing humans takes decades.
billymg nods
lobbes: http://trilema.com/2019/the-famous-schlob-and-other-stories/#footnote_0_88237 << heh, when I go to lookup "deluvional" the top result in duckduckgo is... another trilema
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in regional church happenings
lobbes: BingoBoingo: your link did not make it through

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