Young Hands
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Ossasepia



BingoBoingo: In blood, stones, and squeezing Argentina's new-old government is... inventing new official outgoing exchange rate to shave capital flight, if there was any left to go flying http://archive.is/xmsuL
mp_en_viaje: wtf 5bn spent abroad, this is entirely imaginary
mp_en_viaje: if the whole of argentina spent 5mn last year its a wonder
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/zig-zag/ << Trilema -- Zig-zag
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955265 - maybe it's something specific to the 3d block there that messes it up though it's not all that likely (if for no other reason than the basic 1. at first it worked 2. it still works as a separate footnote); anyways, I don't think it's worth the time right now to chase it fully.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 21:58:40 mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, it can't be the size, i tested this
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955280 - looks more like easily triggered by it than effectively aggressive to it.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:05:33 trinque: I am particularly aggressive to this, it being isomorphic to the church environment in which I was raised.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955290 - this sounds right to me although I rather hesitate on the "perfectly respectable" - I mean, precisely not so perfectly given the "pre-headfucked" as you put it (and I'm not sure it's that at all ie some external rather than internal lack).
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:11:41 mp_en_viaje: i dont know, man. from where i'm sitting, and i'll readily admit i'm not some sort of linux scholar over here, it seems to me torvalds came in two decades ago on a sorta-kinda wishy-washy platform, and a bunch of perfectly respectable men went with him because well, sorta-kinda wishy-washy is better than nothing, and because being an engineers they didn't know better. they were, so to speak, pre-headfucked by pantsuit agitprop, like cult-r
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, well yeah but i mean, before it fails all pig iron's perfectly respectable. after, you find out it had a bubble.
diana_coman: I guess so.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/12/north-korea-bolstering-nuclear-deterrent-this-holiday-season/ << Qntra -- North Korea Bolstering Nuclear Deterrent This Holiday Season
trinque: diana_coman: I'm not going to do the "hurr, be a man and toil in this mountain of boy's cumsocks" thread again.
diana_coman: trinque: it has/had nothing to do with that either; but sure.
trinque: diana_coman: did the point of comparing open source to protestantism not make sense, or what
trinque: it's idiotic to equate "this man is loudly saying X is foolhardy" with "X man is a bitch" every time it comes up.
trinque: you may recall me getting similarly loud before pizarro crashed.
trinque: if there's anything to which I'm developing an allergy, it's the hubris cycle.
diana_coman: trinque: the comparison OS/protestantism made sense; I get the allergy to hubris cycle too, now that you say it explicitly; my point above was though precisely re loud-before-crashed esp given the long silence -punctured at times briefly, sure- before that; ie the outbursts themselves I get but I don't see to be very useful really.
diana_coman: and just to be on the clear side: it's not against "loudly saying X is foolhardy", not at all; if it's not clear though, I'll give it a rest.
trinque: you realize where I live the aggression threshold for "unpleasant company" is set way higher, or no?
diana_coman: trinque: you are not unpleasant company that I see, no.
trinque: one yells at his friends for going off the same cliff over and over again.
diana_coman: does it help ?
trinque: apparently this depends on the counterparty.
trinque: at any rate, I consider myself heard on the hubris cycle, and I've already committed to a few bile-soaked pieces on linux and other things.
trinque: dorion_road: btw, your gales has the same problem mp_en_viaje pointed out about my cuntoo. it doesn't actually have the sources of the dependencies. one provides those as tarballs.
trinque: totally solvable problem, and I expect what you'd do ends up looking what I've been working on.
trinque: or wait, jfw I think?
trinque: at any rate one of you has a beard almost as awesome as mine.
trinque: "While I have striven to make prudent and security-conscious choices, I am not attempting to keep up with the "penetrate and patch" rat-race in its many third-party components." << This is somewhat concerning, in that you say "eh" about the "many third-party components". I'd instead try for the minimal possible bootable src surface area.
trinque: suppose someone's going to kill you for losing their 1000btc with this thing. What then about "not keeping up with the rat race"?
trinque: ^ it's this I mean by "let money flow over it, and let money shape it"
trinque: I don't think you expect to actually be yourselves patching acpica autoconf automake bash bc bison bzip2 cl-hyperspec clisp dash db flex gales-util gcc64 git gnupg less libevent libressl libusb links m4 man-pages man-pages-posix mandoc ncurses nginx ocaml openssh patch pciutils perl php56 py-setuptools python python-docs qmail readline redis sbcl sqlite sqlite-doc tmux ucspi-tcp vim xz zlib
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-14#1955357 << I think the source tarballs are available on the mirror. A problem with not publishing has been this source distribution is only being worked through now. I'll let jfw comment further.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-14 14:00:22 trinque: dorion_road: btw, your gales has the same problem mp_en_viaje pointed out about my cuntoo. it doesn't actually have the sources of the dependencies. one provides those as tarballs.
dorion_road: trinque those are the packages in gports. some have patches by jfw. a task for tmsr.os is to list all the dependencies for the implicit clients. so many of those in that Gales gports list may not make it in tmsr.os.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-14#1955358 << nice, I'd definitely like to read more about what you're working on.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-14 14:01:10 trinque: totally solvable problem, and I expect what you'd do ends up looking what I've been working on.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955270 << sweet.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:00:11 trinque: nah, I'm going to do my best to uncoil the spring.
dorion_road: ^^ I meant to link this one http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955271
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:00:48 trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-11#1955038 << both.
trinque: dorion_road: it's more a comment that "why isn't your patch a vpatch atop the gales genesis"
dorion_road: ah, right. that's a big shortcoming of Gales, didn't use V from the start.
trinque: I skipped it in cuntoo as well, for equally bad reasons.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955279 << systemd now, what, a couple million lines of C ? 'open source', i.e. shit that's not microsoft.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:04:53 trinque: narrowly, in its time, of microsoft. "whatever, literally anything is better than microshit" and now, of themselves, living in their own shit.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955280 << thanks for sharing
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:05:33 trinque: I am particularly aggressive to this, it being isomorphic to the church environment in which I was raised.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955282 << cool.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:06:42 trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-11#1955049 << c'est possible
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955286 << thanks! I look forward to any comments/questions
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:09:35 trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-11#1955051 << shall digest.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955296 << that makes a lot of sense. processes and tools are being built in this first stage. for exmple, we have exercises/problem sets after working with these first clients. that's a product we can tweak/adjust/refine moving forward, but a lot of the work is done.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:17:31 trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-11#1955056 << it's hard because the flow of money through your business determines the shape of your product, which is to double down on what I said above. skillfully done, you accumulate a generally useful set of tools and the job gets easier, til eventually it's more of a product play than consulting
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955299 << right, we start of with a clear offer, "hey, this is what you can gain from working with us," but are open to more custom deals if it makes sense.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:19:07 trinque: if you're taking clients with very different problems all the time, that'd result in an incoherent accumulation of disjunct items.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955301 << lol!
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:20:10 mp_en_viaje: his saving grace is that his clients are in fact very similar idiots in the relevant aspects, which is why i said well targetted. that's the key to success, always find a group of such idiots that, ideally, don't even realise it.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955309 << yeah, partnerships, referral agreements, etc. is what we're after, especially with Panama's prolabor labor laws.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:23:32 mp_en_viaje: but even leaving aside how a good wot means more access to capital than any fiat bank arrangements can provide -- the ideological structure well protects him from 1 and much helps hiom with 2, by supporting strong partnerships.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955313 << yeah, a while back and it made its impact on me. probably due for a re-read here sooner rather than later though.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:24:44 mp_en_viaje: dorion_road, you read that article above btw ?
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955315 << I shared a bit in #o a couple months back, and have some overdue articles to publish detailing, but the short is I worked 2 years for euro pacific bank, a start up at the time.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:25:10 mp_en_viaje: actually, i don't recall you ever saying, either of you ever been involved with start-ups in any capacity ?
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2019-10-16 dorion: in 2010 I came across Peter Schiff, American investor who forecast 2008 financial crisis. this opened me up to seriously exploring what things are and ultimately lead me to decide by spring 2011 I would do what I had to do to work for him. in January 2012, he advertised openings for commission only sales people to move out of usia and work for his new bank, www.europacbank.com .
trinque: ha! that's pretty cool actually!
dorion_road: yeah, it was fun and I learned/grew a lot. can for sure think of worse ways to spend one's 22nd and 23rd years.
dorion_road: in 2013 I met evoorhees in Panama, and took a job with Coinapult in 2014 to run customer service. I did some business development and got exposure to qa for the ~year that lasted.
dorion_road: the ceo and cto of coinapult spun off a development company and I did some consulting with them, but they didn't finish the software they started and I transitioned to work with jfw.
trinque: why didn't they finish? ran out of steam?
trinque: this isn't an insult btw; I've been a part of several that did.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955317 << I've certainly found that to be the case in opening up and asking diana_coman help me kill my stupidity.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-13 22:25:42 mp_en_viaje: be very explicit because it greatly benefits you for us to know how you're fucked in the head. like the doctor gotta know if you've been fucking any skinny girls in behind-the-bar alleys.
dorion_road: trinque they got lost on engineering loops and yeah, ran out of steam.
trinque: most of these failures in my own life amounted to mp_en_viaje's "toward purpose", i.e. they were narcissists reaching for objects conjured in their own imaginations, primarily to create the feedback necessary to sustain said narcissism.
trinque: my lately talking only of money isn't greed, so much as trying to humble myself into hustling for that dirty dollar^Wbuttcorn instead of ^
trinque: well hell, it's greed too. :p
trinque: back to the subj, what does a europac bank need, in your experience?
trinque: schiff's an interesting guy, has some of the right ideas, but it almost seems an accident from the outside.
trinque: i.e. "if we just let markets work" etc., the libertarian thing where the forces that aggregate into govt "just" wise up.
dorion_road: trinque I'll circle back to that in a bit, talking with diana_coman in #o
trinque: in reading her logs, I couldn't agree with her more. bbl
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-14#1955358 << i don't think they've been thinking about it before in these terms ; but yes solvable. what's more : not only solvable, but beneficially solvable. it's one thing when cleaning up the place is approachable ; it's another thing when cleaning up the place not only is approachable, but actually approaching it necessarily provides an answer to why your scissors kept disappearing. as th
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-14 14:01:10 trinque: totally solvable problem, and I expect what you'd do ends up looking what I've been working on.
mp_en_viaje: ey work towards properly genesis-ing the thing, whichever points of resistence they end up encountering are bound to be quite informative.
diana_coman: carrying over from #o as it's possibly of interest re jfw's code: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-14#1013020
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2019-12-14 diana_coman: jfw: I went through your keksum proggy and it's been quite a pleasure really; a few nitpicks on top of those: 1. why default/fallthrough on "bad option" instead of the more useful help option? 2. you have nicely \t everywhere except in usage_err in main.c where it's \s 3. just out of curiosity really since ...
diana_coman: he'll end up doing a 3rd regrind of that genesis but once he does it, I'll sign and mirror it.
mp_en_viaje: not bad.
mp_en_viaje is annoyed by reference @acpica intelshit, but there's ~nothing he can do about it atm
diana_coman: well yes; and there are also C-specific annoyances but I don't think *those* are his fault now either.
mp_en_viaje: nothing to do with him at all, this is re the gales prereq pile
mp_en_viaje: honestly i'd much prefer an acpi-free machine, myself.
mp_en_viaje: i can't think of any desirable element in it whatsoever.
diana_coman: I don't really have anything to offer as a counterargument to that.
mp_en_viaje: i get it, thing comes with supposed full sources that supposedly build ; i don't know that anyone worth any confidence even tried to in the past however many years. it's still building the wrong way, what the fuck os-awareness of power button. whole fucking point of even having a power butto nin the first place is to have an ALTERNATIVE control mechanism to the operating system.
diana_coman: the usual "we're innovating aka corrupting because reasons", as far as I see it, yes.
diana_coman glares at zcx
mp_en_viaje: heh
mp_en_viaje: in the same vein i suspect bison is massively suboptimal wrt algorithms chosen, elegance of implementation, length, pretty much everything. would prolly greatly beenfit from a rewrite.
diana_coman: ahahaha; that reminds me of the "compilers" course at uni where ...
mp_en_viaje: prolly should say bison-flex
mp_en_viaje: nfi why they're even separate.
diana_coman: so you have to flex the bison, no other reason that I can see.
mp_en_viaje: makes about as much sense as axe head / handle separation
mp_en_viaje: basically software that's not outright banned falls either in the gpg category, like bison etc above, "barely working, extremely bloated, would greatly benefit from rewrite" ; or else in utf category, "massively fucking stupid implementation, would love nothing more than the right surgical silk to suture the wound with correctly".
mp_en_viaje: there's some slow migration from 2 to 1, like eg dns. but by and large...
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, truth be told there's this immense, but i do mean IMMENSE pile of accumulated tech debt via "i'll do it tomorrow" device
mp_en_viaje: i expect there's shit that still requires the same re-read and re-write it did back before the berlin wall.
diana_coman: quite possibly, I can see it.
mp_en_viaje: jfw, more's the point, why the fuck import git at all ?
mp_en_viaje: also, you're probably stuck dropping nginx altogether
mp_en_viaje: xz AND zlib lol ok, this discussio ncan continue later.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-14#1955407 << this is actually a pretty accomplished description of the problem.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-14 15:01:02 trinque: most of these failures in my own life amounted to mp_en_viaje's "toward purpose", i.e. they were narcissists reaching for objects conjured in their own imaginations, primarily to create the feedback necessary to sustain said narcissism.
mp_en_viaje: most beings an engineer produce useful things only as an unintentional / coincidental byproduct of an internal cycle of self-assuaging that's broadly unrelated to anything else.
mp_en_viaje: ye olde hb problem.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-14#1955411 << there's been some casual effort put into quantifying that accident question.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-14 15:05:33 trinque: schiff's an interesting guy, has some of the right ideas, but it almost seems an accident from the outside.
mp_en_viaje: the principal problem with the approach is that the guy is a radio personality, his statements are never that i've seen structured enough to constitute meaningful prediction. they're closer to statements of sentiment, and the value of sentiments depends chiefly on what your sentiments for the sentiment-er are. if it turned out nancy pelosi loved you deeply what'd it pay ?
mp_en_viaje: otherwise, items like eg http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2017-08-16#1699371 very much speak to him. dude had the general idea, but then it turned out it wasn't gold, it was something entirely else. was he "right" ? or was he "wrong" ?
ossabot: Logged on 2017-08-16 15:28:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect the gold people are very subjectively hurt by bitcoin doing what gold "Was supposed to do" and haet.
mp_en_viaje: the same sort of naivity permeates throughout, "oh, the dollar will crash". doesn't enter his mind to wonder "against what". it's been sorta-kinda crashing against the euro, i guess, but i mean look at the fucking euro. the whole fucking concept of the dubaloo is that "it hasn't what to crash against" ; and everyone's complicit -- the chinese sure as fuck don't want it crashing against themselves, for instance. the republic's pretty much t
mp_en_viaje: he only entity that can afford the fiats crashing against its currency, and lo that it has.
mp_en_viaje: but schiff dun know about that, because i guess scott locklin mental issues.
mp_en_viaje: and so on in this vein, yes us is confronting a "crisis of confidence" in the sense of complede decredibilization -- but it's purely political, not monetary ; and its underlying is mindblowing military weakness, not industrial inefficiency. not that the latter's absent, but phenomena are driven by what they happen to be driven, not by the larger or most visible element. peo
mp_en_viaje: ple routinely fall in love with smart girls to the tune of 1 in 10mn because of their ass, that's ok-ish, but ok-ish to the tune of 1 in 500.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-14#1955410 << it's surfing, exactly. without an actual navy ready to bombard, 1800s gunboat diplomacy style, a bank's as meaningless as "a jet engine", or "a liver". they don't do anything by themselves.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-14 15:04:52 trinque: back to the subj, what does a europac bank need, in your experience?

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