Young Hands
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mod6: !!deed
deedbot: accepted: 1
mod6: Ladies and Gentlemen, I have posted the monthly report for The Foundation in deedbot ^ and here:
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jfw: mod6: glad to see progress on the keccak tree. I intend to take a look at the patches and try a build, might not be for a while though. What I'm not seeing though: what is the status of asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks, mod6_excise_hash_truncation, asciilifeform_whogaveblox and mod6_phexdigit_fix ?
jfw: Re item 4, why is a bot needed for vpatch submission? Don't blogs already cover all the aspects - publishing, commentary, discussion, referencing, notification? (Perhaps your article will clarify, in which case don't mind me.)
mod6: Hi there jfw, thanks for the questions.
jfw: oh sorry, asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks is in there, just the other three then.
mod6: Let me work through these here. Glad you're going to try out a build. Please do let me know how it goes. I did just find three 'gotchas' on CentOS (6.10); whereby 'bison', 'flex' and 'patch' all need to be installed manually. Apparently these are not a part of the default system.
mod6: I've updated the How-To document to reflect that, but otherwise, have had good luck on my own with building. Am interested to hear how it goes for others, though.
mod6: (23:28) <+jfw> oh sorry, asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks is in there, just the other three then. << correct.
mod6: mod6_excise_hash_truncation << This one in particular is nice, and I've been using it in my test environments for a while. I'm fine at this point with adding it in, it just needs a regrind (again). Can work on that this month.
jfw: ^ yep, complete non-starter to debug "I'm having trouble with block 00000000...1<snipped>"
mod6: asciilifeform_whogaveblox << I'm more open to comments on this one too, I don't see a big issue with it being in the tree. I'm also using this one in a test environment (for quite some time now). Haven't seen any issues with it at this time. It would need a simple regrind. Can do it this month as well.
mod6: mod6_phexdigit_fix << This one I'd like to put in for sure, as it seems, at least according to my own analysis that this is a legit bug (does anyone disagree with this analysis?). Just would need a simple regrind at this point. Can do this month as well.
mod6: Regarding your question re IRC bot for vpatch submission: I've thought about this quite a bit. And I struggle with this.
mod6: For me, I've always liked the mailing list. It's cumbersome, and it's had it's pain points in the past. Everyone, at one time or another, has had a problem getting things stuck in its queue, etc. However, when it works, it does work pretty well. I like how it checks the WoT on submission, has an archive, and we can all go back and look at it years and years later.
mod6: I find it fairly easy to go and dig stuff up in there if I need to do so. I tried to stand it back up, several times, in fact, since it's home on Pizarro went down. But I haven't been successful there. Upon speaking to jurov about it, he suggested instead that we create a bot for this purpose instead.
mod6: Now, I've thought that over a bit; the first thing that came to mind was deedbot. However, I think that deedbot probably isn't the right place for developer doodles. Plus, each one costs actual money.
mod6: TMSR Lords and others seem to publish all their code on their blogs, which, I think is fine. But my hang-up with allowing people to post TRB patches/seals on their blogs instead of sending them in is two-fold: 1) It puts it on me to chase these down. 2) Then I have to place them somewhere for long-term keeping anyway. As we've seen, people's blogs get rather large, hard to find things, or disappear complet
mod6: ely.
mod6: Not that I love having a centralized bot, either. It's just, I'm not 100% sure what the best way to go is on this. The mailing list was centralized, it worked fine.
mod6: I dunno, anyway, I thought it could be good for people to go ahead and submit a vpatch, and seal to the bot, where it can be checked for L1/L2, and stored for the future, all in one place, making less work for the gardener.
BingoBoingo: The biggest problem with the mailing list is the mail part.
mod6: lmao
mod6: yes. a bot that would do this over irc, is basically what I've been thinking about.
BingoBoingo: The second biggest problem is that mp-wp is growing, billmg is putting work into making mp-wp do code hosting more cleanly, and the mailman software the mailing list used is an awful, poorly documented thing. If an IRC patchbot is the way to go, hooking it into mp-wp seems like the better direction to go.
mod6: I fully agree, mailman is a ancient artefact back from, probably literally, the pre-september internet days. Yes, it's quite, well, frustrating to say the least.
mod6: Now the idea to make a bot that would somehow interact with blogs, is an idea I hadn't thought of before.
BingoBoingo: See
mod6: Ok, I saw this in January, I may need to re-read it, but on first pass I didn't gather that this would do what I needed it to do.
BingoBoingo: Maybe not all of it, but with the lobbes bot that logs into mp-wp, there's space
lobbes: if I ever get the mp-wp logger complete.. well it interfaces with the mp-wp database already so theoretically possible to hook that up to what billymg is doing down the road
lobbes: BingoBoingo, aha
mod6: Ah, alright. Maybe that's it, just a few moving parts here.
jfw: "It puts it on me to chase these down" - this seems to be the core of it; why not leave it to the sponsor(s) of a patch to keep their blogs online & organized enough to find patches (category, code shelf or whatnot)? It's then, what, couple clicks per patch or a wget to import to your own collection - trivial compared to the effort of actually reviewing the patch I'd imagine
mod6: jfw: aside from a possible mp-wp (future) solution to the issue; several clicks notwithstanding, I mearly worry that somehow, the gardener may simply overlook or miss one.
mod6: Anyway, sounds like there might be a solution to this between what billymg and lobbes are working on + maybe another added step?
mod6: All I'm saying, is that without said possible future solution, it may be somewhat difficult to track through 39 different blogs watching for patch submissions all the time.
jfw: perhaps a comment thread on your own blog where someone proposing a patch can "officially submit" it?
mod6: But again, if there is going to be a future solution for this in the form of some kind of existing bot extention, then I'm all for that. At least it would, presumably, notify the gardener (somehow) that there is something to inspect.
mod6: jfw: This might be fine, but what if I'm not the guy? Meaning, let's say that there are threads on my blog, people publish stuff in the comments, or wherever on there, i dunno, pingbacks somehow. If someone else takes over, I get hit by a bus, blog goes bye bye from non-payment, what happens to thread on new guys blog?
mod6: I suppose the foundation should maybe have its own blog then.
mod6: (I appreciate this discussion, fwiw.)
jfw: Or new maintainer starts new thread, and someone puts up an archive of your blog assuming anyone cared enough to keep one
mod6: I suppose that's fair.
jfw: as always, keeping information alive requires live people to do it
mircea_popescu: i don't get the logic whereby anything is ~wanted~ of someone who "disappeared completely"
mod6: hi mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: what, they're such impervious snowflakes their deeds overwhelm their existence, is the fantasy ?
mircea_popescu: if some shit someone vomited that nobody could be arsed to mirror disappears, this is a great and wonderful gain for everyone.
mod6: Yeah, not that we would want stuff from nonpersons, just in the case where, as we've seen recently (even with my own blog) where it was down for a few weeks, or months as people are between hosting or such.
mircea_popescu: mod6, there's a bunch of code shelves you might end up on, if you do the right and proper things.
mod6: Right on.
mod6: I like this better than mirrors too, as it seems that those always tend to disappear or end up way out of date without explanation.
mircea_popescu: i really don't think the known failures of the "engineer" mindset need any encouragement. this whole "i'll overwhelm my horrible idiocy with supposedly worthy deeds" nonsense has little space left to frolic in.
mircea_popescu: so do not ye worry "the gardener may miss one". really, the walflowers aren't even worth pissing on if they were on fire.
mod6: haha, ok.
jfw: observe for instance how the gardener nearly missed a couple patches anyway but I poked, not even being a signer of any as yet
mod6: I appreciate the poking re things TRB.
mod6: Alright gents, I'm gonna go make some food here. bbl.
mircea_popescu: << two problems. firstly, how about you just use the rss feeds / feedbot for this purpose. and if you're unhappy with the waterhose, ask the people who do it to maybe make a special category or tag ? and if they don't, consider that maybe this means ~[][you
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-03 20:22:10 mod6: All I'm saying, is that without said possible future solution, it may be somewhat difficult to track through 39 different blogs watching for patch submissions all the time.
mircea_popescu: ]~ are in the wrong.
mircea_popescu: and secondly, the rpublic isn't intended to work this way. you're supposed to hear about the patches you hear about. you aren't happy with the patches you hear about, make better friends.
mircea_popescu: this imaginary self-situation in the seat of god where lo and behold you'll somehow see all patches... what the fuck do you think this is, the github flatlands ?
mircea_popescu: ain't gonna ever happen, the republic's the republic for reasons.
mircea_popescu: but in general, if you can't be arsed to read my blog, you're cordially invited to get the fuck lost and in no case pretend like you're using my patches.
mircea_popescu: where "me" is just about a wildcard, it stands for "anyone" because that's what the fuck "no separation from politics" means.
mircea_popescu: pick some people you actually care about, and connect with those. stop trying to shinohai yourself the imaginary world of where you've wrung the persons out of their deeds, and now looky there's just this pile of hallucinated freedom for you to wither atop of.
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