Young Hands
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dorion: - I figured he'd at least show up to ask questions, but I see now if that were the case it would've been done the 5th or 6th or sometime before the 15th when he published
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-17 23:07:57 mircea_popescu: wth do you even represent the eventual world-equivalent of your word usage to be ? two weeks hence mod6 shows up with a working drop-in replacement for an intricate, specialist piece of machinery that happens to be built with skills he doesn't have by an advanced programmer he isn't on a worldview he doesn't share ?
dorion: his lastest detached sigs.
dorion: - ok. I'll work on asking smart questions more often to replace the bad habits of jumping back and forth between a) staying silent and b) jumping ahead with excess optimism.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-17 23:08:08 mircea_popescu: i get it, you're a nice fellow and would like for things to be good and work out. nothing wrong with that. you wanna help along with the things, excellent. the prompter's at "get the few who actually seem like they could have something intelligent to say on the topic to comment on the proposed spec ; an' help mp figure out why they don't apparently naturally want to ; but without going out of what he's doing, such as fo
mircea_popescu: that could work
bvt: diana_coman: answered your comment yesterday, uploaded the regrind of p.1 and p.2 yesterday as well.
diana_coman: bvt: cool, I'll give it another spin, hopefully soon.
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jfw: << >> . We'll see what happens
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-04 22:40:07 mircea_popescu: jfw, re the whole musl & locales issue, it might be an idea to signal to them, "look, we use musl, and we don't think this is a good idea". irrespective of whether it does anything, at least that way they can't say they didn't realise "unanimity" is hallucinated etc.
mircea_popescu: i don't expect much happening in that sense. if you bury the dead rather than let them rot under the bird-ladden sky, what happens ?
diana_coman: it stinks less!
jfw: I suppose what happens is the gravedigger who fancied there might be some life in the bodies gets convinced otherwise. From the first response: "Unicode 12.1 added the symbol for the new Japanese era, Reiwa Era. You will be unable to represent current dates in the Japanese calendar without this update." ; "I have been personally impacted by the lack of [political sort order]" ; "No one user
jfw: matters more than another"
mircea_popescu: lol ok
mircea_popescu: how is the "no one user is more important than another" nonsense an argument for their position ? user q wants y, user w wants there not to be y, "no one user is more important than another" =necessarily> no y.
mircea_popescu: jfw, what chan is this anyways ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: to my mind the "no one user matters more than another" means of course "no user matters at all" ; because it follows by necessity.
mircea_popescu: i suppose so.
jfw: mircea_popescu: ha, good point. It's their email list
mircea_popescu: a ok.
jfw: !!up tecuane
deedbot: tecuane voiced for 30 minutes.
jfw: hi tecuane, I understand you're here about musl translations
tecuane: so i am confusion
tecuane: apart from using "considered harmful" which is unilaterally considered the most dumbass way to get a point across
tecuane: you dont like non-english languages in your musl
tecuane: which is weird af when you consider the second line of the first link on your ml post:
mircea_popescu: anyway, your statement is i guess something along the lines of "look, good fellows, your theory as to how users matter is not an argument in the direction you wish to construe it, but exactly opposite. the republic specifically does not want there to be unicode support. if you implement it, that means the republic will fork and maintain your thing pre-implementation. if you do not implement it, some schmuck somewhere wi
mircea_popescu: ll be personally impacted by not being able to represent the "japanese current era" -- something i'm apparently able to represent right now, without using unicode for it (so perhaps, i'm saying, the problem is in the schmuck in question's own head). that'd be it really, do your best under the constraints as they are."
ossabot: Logged on 2018-01-09 18:48:52 phf: mule is probably part of the greater concern within the overal situation which was japanese and unicode
tecuane: tf did i just read
mircea_popescu: tecuane, the problem with supporting non-alphabet approaches to an alphabet is that you get the worst of both worlds.
tecuane: have u worked on a libc
tecuane: beyond yayposting on the mailing lists
mircea_popescu: tecuane, i suppose you read my pov re the issue you're discussing. there's a log :
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 15:58:41 ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-04 22:40:07 mircea_popescu: jfw, re the whole musl & locales issue, it might be an idea to signal to them, "look, we use musl, and we don't think this is a good idea". irrespective of whether it does anything, at least that way they can't say they didn't realise "unanimity" is hallucinated etc.
mircea_popescu: tecuane, the republic is currently maintaining static linked os, yes.
mircea_popescu: this means private libcs, there's a coupla flavours.
jfw: tecuane: I have no problem at all with what languages people represent on their computer, the more the merrier; I very much have a problem with extra code (+ potential bugs) being added to my computer to support it in core system utilities
tecuane: when you said on your post
tecuane: "come to this channel and pm me and we can discuss it"
mircea_popescu: well, he voiced you, so i guess that's what he meant.
tecuane: i didnt realise i would also be talking to someone who writes in riddles and screeds, using the royal "the republic" instead of "i"
mircea_popescu: that's not exactly what's jhappening lol. the republic's an actual thing, distinct from i.
tecuane: its not fair to bring The Riddler to a conversation
tecuane: thats just rude
mircea_popescu: aite, so you two carry on in pm, i have no objection.
tecuane: are you a sovereign citizen mircea_popescu
tecuane: you talk like someone on the fence about it
mircea_popescu: i am not much of a citizen, so i guess ?
mircea_popescu: is it a term of art ?
tecuane: jfw: it seems like a weird thing to be concerned about 2bh
mircea_popescu: everyting can seem so, including supporting the japanese nonsense.
tecuane: ah so jfw is being 'brutally practical' and you're just being racially intolerant
tecuane: got it
mircea_popescu: look, race doesn't enter into it.
mircea_popescu: having an open ended alphabet is like having a square wheel. not how it works.
mircea_popescu: some people wanan make their imaginary race about using square wheels, that's their fucking problem.
tecuane: "not how it works" is a weird descriptor for something that has worked just fine for kinda a long time imo
mircea_popescu: at no point in its short, tortured existence has unicode worked fine
mircea_popescu: in fact, i would say unicode is the poster child for what broken code even means.
mircea_popescu: it was a worse fucking idea than "object oriented", and it's high time it got marked as such and put in the dustbin where it belongs.
tecuane: just like object-oriented did right
tecuane: o wait
mircea_popescu: right.
tecuane: oo didnt get put in the bin lmao
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, can tell you some joys of oo-idiocy and the sorta lulz it drives.
mircea_popescu: tecuane, lmao, you're not serious are you ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: you know, I was trying to not shock tecuane with this notion that it being a public chan there are actually *other* people reading and talking and generally participating.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, i thought you were just a biorobot.
diana_coman: ahaha
tecuane: mircea_popescu: in what universe has oo been "put in the bin" ever
tecuane: it hasnt even faded from popularity let alone been relegated to the trash
mircea_popescu: i suspect you might have been somewhat isolated for a few years, but i have no way to answer your "in what universe" q, for lack of an indexing mechanism. in not-yours ?
jfw: I at least haven't written a class except as required for Python exceptions in years
tecuane: i feel like that may be the other way around
tecuane: i see it absolutely plenty in code that isnt mine
mircea_popescu: well yeah, that's the sort of sentiment that's necessarily mutual.
mircea_popescu: tecuane, good code ? or shit code ?
tecuane: both
mircea_popescu: i've not seen it in good code. i don't mean recently, i mean ever.
tecuane: as an expert polyglot im sure you are the absolute benchmark for what is and is not "good code"
mircea_popescu: but, be that as it may, "popularity", especially as perceived by people not instrumented to measure anything, is no kind of basis for reason.
mircea_popescu: tecuane, wth is an expert polyglot ?
tecuane: imagine if you could use a service to look up a word
tecuane: even if they were in a different language
tecuane: like french
mircea_popescu: a polyglot is someone who speaks multiple languages. this state doesn't take the "expert" tag.
mircea_popescu: tecuane, your notion of what words mean is inadequate. you can't "look up a word" in this sense, because natural languages do not admit strict equivalency.
tecuane: this behaviour explains the operating system thing so much
tecuane: it all makes way more sense now
jfw: The OO discussion must make us class-ists too I suppose!
mircea_popescu: you'll look up "foutez" and "camp" and decide what, "fuck me the field" is a french idiom ?
tecuane: probably not because i dont spend my time coming up with cool linguistic comebacks in the shower in my downtime from removing other languages from my libc tbh
mircea_popescu: did you ever do any work in an actually secure environment ? because there's a difference of perspective, you realise, between hipster doofuses trying to impress imaginary girlfriends with their code-inclusiveness, and people who write systems that do not lose other people's money.
mircea_popescu: the latter tend to want to take crap out, the former tend to want to put crap in.
mircea_popescu: i don't particularly care if you put a "you're beautiful today" motd in your libc. but i also can't use such a libc, so i'll have to fork it if i want to use it. which is the whole point here.
tecuane: is your gf imaginary too or does being cold hard and full of reason make you Max Chadders
mircea_popescu: i keep slavegirls dood, wth are you talking about.
tecuane: it feels like you watched House MD one too many times and thought "lmao thats a really good personality trait"
mircea_popescu: i'd ask what's house md, but you've such a terrible record answering these.
tecuane: tv show but you probably dont watch those
mircea_popescu: well, i did like seinfeld.
tecuane: it might damage your smooth and imperfection-free brain
mircea_popescu: but yeah, not recently.
jfw: US medical drama with lead who says Mean Things but actually solves problems
jfw: (from the very little I saw.)
tecuane: pretty much
mircea_popescu: no dood, they're just fucking stupid. i watch 1970s adriano celentano made-for-tv movies recently tho, so it's pretty much the same thing.
mircea_popescu: just , you know, being a polyglot affords one choice.
mircea_popescu: jfw, is this the clooney vehicle ?
jfw: mircea_popescu: not sure what you mean, I don't think clooney's involved
mircea_popescu: there's this retard who became "hot" because he was in some medical drama
jfw: ah, House is Hugh Laurie
mircea_popescu: a
mircea_popescu: wait, of fry and laurie ?! aaaahahahaha
mircea_popescu: o god, this is the funniest thing i heard all day.
mircea_popescu: wtf, they've run out, next big thing on tv is going to be... mr bean.
tecuane: welp my time is up and i didnt really learn anything i already knew apart from mircea_popescu likes using the synonym feature of microsoft word a bit too much and the dislike of translations is actually just not liking other languages as opposed to "there might be bugs"
tecuane: this was less whelming than i expected
jfw: funny how mircea_popescu probably speaks more languages than half the musl-using population combined...
mircea_popescu: yes, but this situation was arrived at with a lot of posturing and labeling and such nonsense.
mircea_popescu: anyway, at least i found out there's nothing on tv without having to buy one.
jfw: a productive evening then!
diana_coman: I am still shocked at the idea that ...uhm, was as in ..ever?
diana_coman: iirc he worked as an ok Wooster, seemed to fit fine.
mircea_popescu: fry and laurie was this long running british tv show made to fill the hole left by monty python. it was rabidly socialist to an utterly offensive degree, and made the popularity of both faggots involved (among the uk bernie sandals crowd)
mircea_popescu: the only problem is the very lulzy soviet-style gerontocracy involved. i mean, they've nobody but 90yos left to "leadership" them, and if they need somebody to star in a tv production it's gonna be a dude born in the 50s ?! still, today as in 1970, as in 1980, as in forever, the heroes of socialist labour are the same exact physical items ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: well, remember arsinel? lolz
mircea_popescu: at least the original soviets had the werewithal to laugh at it on their own power, didn't need foreign polyglots to "not whelm" by pointing and laughing.
mircea_popescu: but then again i suppose that's what an expert polyglot is all about : one who speaks fifty languages in one, by inventing an imaginary "whelm" and perhaps typesetting everything in japanese.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, ikr.
jfw lmao, was trying to figure out if it was over or under that he wasn't whelmed
diana_coman: I honestly thought he meant whelp!
mircea_popescu: incidentally, cristina topescu died recently, as in, over xmas (this was the daughter of just such a wonder, the ONLY romanian sports commenter, one cristian topescu. socialist romania had one of everything, you knew what panties the girl has on before looking and you knew who was gonna narrate the game on the radio while you're looking). the chick was only famous for once on tv -- because hey, she followed the famlby t
mircea_popescu: rade, as part of being independent liberated woman etc -- as a colt she wished something or the other re "oualelor de paste" which is an impossible construction derived off romanian ou ie egg by someone who doesn't understand how difficult genitives form. so she was celebrated for an april in song and lulz
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, but she died BY HERSELF, among 50 dogs, and nobody found her for a week. none of those thousands of facebook friends.
diana_coman: it must be because she didn't use unicode.
mircea_popescu: but i hope that she's regarding her death with the requisite superior detachement, feigned as it may be. "well... that didn't whelm!"
diana_coman: I winced at cristian topescu recollection as I can still hear the descriptions of figure skaters' costumes, colours included, argghhh.
mircea_popescu: you know ?
diana_coman: the things I still...know; lolz.
mircea_popescu: anyways, ff they had known they might have found a world of joy... but as they lived on the midnight side of the mountain...
mircea_popescu: i guess they'll have their own cristian topescu. it's unavoidable.
mircea_popescu: anyways, contrary to the purportings and pretences traditionally required by their culture, i do kinda suspect ye pantsuit gets pretty well overwhelmed in this here copacetic copse of #trilema
mircea_popescu: i can kinda see it in their eyes of the mind.
jfw: - I'll be so kind as to fix the reference for him; I suppose raster graphics must seem as good as text when your alphabet is unbounded:
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 19:33:08 tecuane: which is weird af when you consider the second line of the first link on your ml post:
jfw: trinque: hm, I thought you had implemented selection there but doesn't appear working.
mircea_popescu: so what's the point, casual usage of the word sin is triggering ?

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